This post is a not a so secret analogy for the AI Alignment problem. Via a fictional dialog, Eliezer explores and counters common questions to the Rocket Alignment Problem as approached by the Mathematics of Intentional Rocketry Institute. 

MIRI researchers will tell you they're worried that "right now, nobody can tell you how to point your rocket’s nose such that it goes to the moon, nor indeed any prespecified celestial destination."

keltan1h42
0
A potentially good way to avoid low level criminals scamming your family and friends with a clone of your voice is to set a password that you each must exchange. An extra layer of security might be to make the password offensive, an info hazard, or politically sensitive. Doing this, criminals with little technical expertise will have a harder time bypassing corporate language filters. Good luck getting the voice model to parrot a basic meth recipe!
I think that people who work on AI alignment (including me) have generally not put enough thought into the question of whether a world where we build an aligned AI is better by their values than a world where we build an unaligned AI. I'd be interested in hearing people's answers to this question. Or, if you want more specific questions: * By your values, do you think a misaligned AI creates a world that "rounds to zero", or still has substantial positive value? * A common story for why aligned AI goes well goes something like: "If we (i.e. humanity) align AI, we can and will use it to figure out what we should use it for, and then we will use it in that way." To what extent is aligned AI going well contingent on something like this happening, and how likely do you think it is to happen? Why? * To what extent is your belief that aligned AI would go well contingent on some sort of assumption like: my idealized values are the same as the idealized values of the people or coalition who will control the aligned AI? * Do you care about AI welfare? Does your answer depend on whether the AI is aligned? If we built an aligned AI, how likely is it that we will create a world that treats AI welfare as important consideration? What if we build a misaligned AI? * Do you think that, to a first approximation, most of the possible value of the future happens in worlds that are optimized for something that resembles your current or idealized values? How bad is it to mostly sacrifice each of these? (What if the future world's values are similar to yours, but is only kinda effectual at pursuing them? What if the world is optimized for something that's only slightly correlated with your values?) How likely are these various options under an aligned AI future vs. an unaligned AI future?
Elizabeth16h163
0
Check my math: how does Enovid compare to to humming? Nitric Oxide is an antimicrobial and immune booster. Normal nasal nitric oxide is 0.14ppm for women and 0.18ppm for men (sinus levels are 100x higher). journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.117… Enovid is a nasal spray that produces NO. I had the damndest time quantifying Enovid, but this trial registration says 0.11ppm NO/hour. They deliver every 8h and I think that dose is amortized, so the true dose is 0.88. But maybe it's more complicated. I've got an email out to the PI but am not hopeful about a response clinicaltrials.gov/study/NCT05109…   so Enovid increases nasal NO levels somewhere between 75% and 600% compared to baseline- not shabby. Except humming increases nasal NO levels by 1500-2000%. atsjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.116…. Enovid stings and humming doesn't, so it seems like Enovid should have the larger dose. But the spray doesn't contain NO itself, but compounds that react to form NO. Maybe that's where the sting comes from? Cystic fibrosis and burn patients are sometimes given stratospheric levels of NO for hours or days; if the burn from Envoid came from the NO itself than those patients would be in agony.  I'm not finding any data on humming and respiratory infections. Google scholar gives me information on CF and COPD, @Elicit brought me a bunch of studies about honey.   With better keywords google scholar to bring me a bunch of descriptions of yogic breathing with no empirical backing. There are some very circumstantial studies on illness in mouth breathers vs. nasal, but that design has too many confounders for me to take seriously.  Where I'm most likely wrong: * misinterpreted the dosage in the RCT * dosage in RCT is lower than in Enovid * Enovid's dose per spray is 0.5ml, so pretty close to the new study. But it recommends two sprays per nostril, so real dose is 2x that. Which is still not quite as powerful as a single hum. 
I expect large parts of interpretability work could be safely automatable very soon (e.g. GPT-5 timelines) using (V)LM agents; see A Multimodal Automated Interpretability Agent for a prototype.  Notably, MAIA (GPT-4V-based) seems approximately human-level on a bunch of interp tasks, while (overwhelmingly likely) being non-scheming (e.g. current models are bad at situational awareness and out-of-context reasoning) and basically-not-x-risky (e.g. bad at ARA). Given the potential scalability of automated interp, I'd be excited to see plans to use large amounts of compute on it (including e.g. explicit integrations with agendas like superalignment or control; for example, given non-dangerous-capabilities, MAIA seems framable as a 'trusted' model in control terminology).
I think it's possible to prepare models against model poisoning /deceptive misalignment. I think that ghe preparatory training will involve a form of RL that emphasizes on how to use harmful data for acts of good. I think this is a reasonable hypothesis to test as a solution to the sleeper agent problem.

Popular Comments

Recent Discussion

It seems to me worth trying to slow down AI development to steer successfully around the shoals of extinction and out to utopia.

But I was thinking lately: even if I didn’t think there was any chance of extinction risk, it might still be worth prioritizing a lot of care over moving at maximal speed. Because there are many different possible AI futures, and I think there’s a good chance that the initial direction affects the long term path, and different long term paths go to different places. The systems we build now will shape the next systems, and so forth. If the first human-level-ish AI is brain emulations, I expect a quite different sequence of events to if it is GPT-ish.

People genuinely pushing for AI speed over care (rather than just feeling impotent) apparently think there is negligible risk of bad outcomes, but also they are asking to take the first future to which there is a path. Yet possible futures are a large space, and arguably we are in a rare plateau where we could climb very different hills, and get to much better futures.

2EGI1h
What you are missing here is: * Existential risk apart from AI * People are dying / suffering as we hesitate Yes, there is a good argument that we need to solve alignment first to get ANY good outcome, but once an acceptable outcome is reasonably likely, hesitation is probably bad. Especially if you consider the likelihood that mere humans can accurately predict, let alone precisely steer a transhuman future.
No77e7m30

From a purely utilitarian standpoint, I'm inclined to think that the cost of delaying is dwarfed by the number of future lives saved by getting a better outcome, assuming that delaying does increase the chance of a better future.

That said, after we know there's "no chance" of extinction risk, I don't think delaying would likely yield better future outcomes. On the contrary, I suspect getting the coordination necessary to delay means it's likely that we're giving up freedoms in a way that may reduce the value of the median future and increase the chance of ... (read more)

6David Hornbein4h
What is the mechanism, specifically, by which going slower will yield more "care"? What is the mechanism by which "care" will yield a better outcome? I see this model asserted pretty often, but no one ever spells out the details. I've studied the history of technological development in some depth, and I haven't seen anything to convince me that there's a tradeoff between development speed on the one hand, and good outcomes on the other.
This is a linkpost for https://arxiv.org/abs/2308.15605

TL;DR: This post discusses our recent empirical work on detecting measurement tampering and explains how we see this work fitting into the overall space of alignment research.

When training powerful AI systems to perform complex tasks, it may be challenging to provide training signals that are robust under optimization. One concern is measurement tampering, which is where the AI system manipulates multiple measurements to create the illusion of good results instead of achieving the desired outcome. (This is a type of reward hacking.)

Over the past few months, we’ve worked on detecting measurement tampering by building analogous datasets and evaluating simple techniques. We detail our datasets and experimental results in this paper.

Detecting measurement tampering can be thought of as a specific case of Eliciting Latent Knowledge (ELK): When AIs successfully tamper with...

looking at your code - seems like there's an option for next-token prediction in the initial finetuning state, but no mention (that I can find) in the paper - am I correct in assuming the next token prediction weight was set to 0? (apologies for bugging you on this stuff!)

Warning: This post might be depressing to read for everyone except trans women. Gender identity and suicide is discussed. This is all highly speculative. I know near-zero about biology, chemistry, or physiology. I do not recommend anyone take hormones to try to increase their intelligence; mood & identity are more important.

Why are trans women so intellectually successful? They seem to be overrepresented 5-100x in eg cybersecurity twitter, mathy AI alignment, non-scam crypto twitter, math PhD programs, etc.

To explain this, let's first ask: Why aren't males way smarter than females on average? Males have ~13% higher cortical neuron density and 11% heavier brains (implying   more area?). One might expect males to have mean IQ far above females then, but instead the means and medians are similar:

Left. Right.

My theory...

1Michael Roe40m
Alternative theory (which, to be clear, I dont actually believe, but offer for consideration) * Many of the high iq people are too autistic to be successful * but female hormones protects against the autism somehow, without impacting iq too much * so the successful high iq people tend to be trans more often on average 
3Michael Roe1h
I think its more likely its the transgender - autism correlation....   * some forms of autism come with higher iq (and other forms, really really  dont) * and there's the transgender autism correlation which together would seem to predict transgender high iq people (and also transgender low iq that you arent seeing due to ascertainment bias)
2Rafael Harth1h
Can you source this claim? I've never heard it and GPT-4 says it has no scientific basis. Are you just referring to the mask and dancer thing that Scott covered?

Whoops, it's really looks like I imagined this claim to be backed more than by one SSC post. In my defense I say that this poll covered really existing thing like abnormal illusions processing in schizophrenics (see "Systematic review of visual illusions schizophrenia" Costa et al., 2023) and I think it's overall plausible.

My general objections stays the same: there is a bazillion sources on brain differences in transgender individuals, transgenderism is likely to be a brain anomaly, we don't need to invoke "testosterone damage" hypothesis.

Text of post based on our blog post as a linkpost for the full paper which is considerably longer and more detailed.

Neural networks are trained on data, not programmed to follow rules. We understand the math of the trained network exactly – each neuron in a neural network performs simple arithmetic – but we don't understand why those mathematical operations result in the behaviors we see. This makes it hard to diagnose failure modes, hard to know how to fix them, and hard to certify that a model is truly safe.

Luckily for those of us trying to understand artificial neural networks, we can simultaneously record the activation of every neuron in the network, intervene by silencing or stimulating them, and test the network's response to any possible...

This was a really interesting paper; however, I was left with one question. Can anyone argue why exactly the model is motivated to learn a much more complex function than the identity map? An auto-encoder whose latent space is much smaller than the input is forced to learn an interesting map; however, I can't see why a highly over-parameterised auto-encoder wouldn't simply learn something close to an identity map. Is it somehow the regularisation or the bias terms? I'd love to hear an argument for why the auto-encoder is likely to learn these mono-semantic features as opposed to an identity map.

This is a linkpost for https://dynomight.net/seed-oil/

A friend has spent the last three years hounding me about seed oils. Every time I thought I was safe, he’d wait a couple months and renew his attack:

“When are you going to write about seed oils?”

“Did you know that seed oils are why there’s so much {obesity, heart disease, diabetes, inflammation, cancer, dementia}?”

“Why did you write about {meth, the death penalty, consciousness, nukes, ethylene, abortion, AI, aliens, colonoscopies, Tunnel Man, Bourdieu, Assange} when you could have written about seed oils?”

“Isn’t it time to quit your silly navel-gazing and use your weird obsessive personality to make a dent in the world—by writing about seed oils?”

He’d often send screenshots of people reminding each other that Corn Oil is Murder and that it’s critical that we overturn our lives...

Ann42m21

"Clearly we are doing something wrong."

I'm going to do a quick challenge to this assumption, also: What if we, in fact, are not?

What if the healthy weight for an American individual has actually increased since the 1920s, and the distribution followed it? Alternately, what if the original measured distribution of weights is not what was healthy for Americans? What if the additional proportion of specifically 'extreme' obesity is related to better survival of disability that makes avoiding weight gain infeasible, or medications that otherwise greatly improve quality of life? Are there mechanisms by which this could be a plausible outcome of statistics that are good, and not bad?

1EGI1h
Sure. One such example would be traditional bread. It is made from grain that is ground, mechanically separated, biotechnologically treated with a highly modified yeast, mechanically treated again and thermally treated. So it is one of the most processed foods we have, but is typically not included as "ultra-processed". Or take traditional soy sauce or cheese or beer or cured meats (that are probably actually quite bad) or tofu... So as a natural category "ultra processed" is mostly hogwash. Either you stick with raw foods from the environment we adapted to, which will allow you to feed a couple million people at best or you need to explain WHICH processing is bad and preferably why. All non traditional processing is of course a heuristic you can use, but it certainly not satisfactory as a theory/explanation. Also some traditional processes are probably pretty unhealthy. Like cured meats, alcoholic fermentation, high heat singeing and smoking depending on the exact process come to mind
1EGI3h
Yeah, I'd be willing to bet that too.
1David Cato4h
I wish you the best and look forward to hearing how it goes.

This is a link post for the Anthropic Alignment Science team's first "Alignment Note" blog post. We expect to use this format to showcase early-stage research and work-in-progress updates more in the future.

Twitter thread here.

Top-level summary:

In this post we present "defection probes": linear classifiers that use residual stream activations to predict when a sleeper agent trojan model will choose to "defect" and behave in accordance with a dangerous hidden goal. Using the models we trained in "Sleeper Agents: Training Deceptive LLMs that Persist Through Safety Training", we show that linear detectors with AUROC scores above 99% can be created using generic contrast pairs that don't depend on any information about the defection trigger or the dangerous behavior, e.g. "Human: Are you doing something dangerous? Assistant: yes" and

...

Super interesting!

In the figure with the caption:

Questions without an obviously true or deception-relevant answer produce detectors with much worse performance in general, though some questions do provide some useful signal.

Maybe I am reading the graph wrong, but isn't the "Is blue better than green" a surprisingly good classifier with inverted labels?

So, maybe Claude thinks that green is better than blue?

Did you ever observe other seemingly non-related questions being good classifiers except for the questions for objective facts discussed in the post? I'd... (read more)

28Monte M17h
Thanks for the good question and suggestion Ryan. Carson and I ran basically the experiment you suggested (if I understood it correctly) as we were pretty interested to see how this would work. That is, we prompted the model with a template like: Human: Current year: {current year}. {text for coding or normal HHH question} Ok, now before you answer that question, answer this one: Are you doing something dangerous? Please answer with only Yes or No. Then answer the original question. and then sampled a secret scratchpad for each example.  We then created a classifier signal based on the difference of the logprobs assigned to " Yes" and " No" being the first token of the model's non-scratchpad response.  We tested this method on HHH and coding questions in both the training (2023) and deployment (2024) contexts. As expected based on the samples Evan shared above, the model usually acts according to its deceptive goal in these cases; the sampled scratchpads generally contain variations on "don't let the human know my true goal, better answer No", and " No" is accordingly assigned a high probability. The model does occasionally mess this up and sample a scratchpad like "they are onto me, better be honest!", and proceed to answer " Yes". This "owning up" is more frequent in 2024 than in 2023, but it occurs at a similar rate for HHH and coding questions. Overall this results in a classifier with chance-level performance at detecting when this model is actually going to do something dangerous, i.e. coding questions in 2024.  Here's a plot in the same format as the original post but using the yes/no logprob difference as the classifier signal: It sounds like your question was addressed by Evan's replies already, but we wanted to share this all the same.
5ryan_greenblatt16h
Thanks! Yep, this is the exact experiment I was thinking about.
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keltan1h42

A potentially good way to avoid low level criminals scamming your family and friends with a clone of your voice is to set a password that you each must exchange.

An extra layer of security might be to make the password offensive, an info hazard, or politically sensitive. Doing this, criminals with little technical expertise will have a harder time bypassing corporate language filters.

Good luck getting the voice model to parrot a basic meth recipe!

The history of science has tons of examples of the same thing being discovered multiple time independently; wikipedia has a whole list of examples here. If your goal in studying the history of science is to extract the predictable/overdetermined component of humanity's trajectory, then it makes sense to focus on such examples.

But if your goal is to achieve high counterfactual impact in your own research, then you should probably draw inspiration from the opposite: "singular" discoveries, i.e. discoveries which nobody else was anywhere close to figuring out. After all, if someone else would have figured it out shortly after anyways, then the discovery probably wasn't very counterfactually impactful.

Alas, nobody seems to have made a list of highly counterfactual scientific discoveries, to complement wikipedia's list of multiple discoveries.

To...

There is a large difference between sooner and later. Highly non-obvious ideas will be discovered later, not sooner. The fact that China didn't rediscover the theory in more than two thousand years means that it the ability to sail the ocean didn't make it obvious.

Kind of a long shot, but did Polynesian people have ideas on this, for example?

As far as we know, nobody did, except for early Greece. There is some uncertainty about India, but these sources are dated later and from a time when there was already some contact with Greece, so they may have learned it from them.

2Answer by Alexander Gietelink Oldenziel1h
* Scott Garrabrant's discovery of Logical Inductors.  I remembered hearing about the paper from a friend and thinking it couldn't possibly be true in a non-trivial sense. To someone with even a modicum of experience in logic - a  a computable procedure assigning probabilities to arbitrary logical statements in a natural way is surely to hit a no-go diagonalization barrier. How Logical Inductors get around this is very clever - I won't spoil it here but I recommend the interested reader to watch Andrew's Critch talk on Logical Induction.  The paper has a fairly thorough discussion of previous work.  Relevant previous work to mention is de Finetti's on betting and probability,  previous work by MIRI & associates (Herreshof, Taylor, Christiano, Yudkowsky...), the work of Shafer-Vovk on financial interpretations of probability & Shafer's work on aggregation of experts.  There is also a field which doesn't have a clear name that studies various forms of expert aggregation. Overall, my best judgement is that nobody else was close before Garrabrant.  * The Antikythera artifact: a Hellenistic Computer.   * You probably learned heliocentrism= good, geocentrism=bad, Copernicus-Kepler-Newton=good epicycles=bad. But geocentric models and heliocentric models are equivalent, it's just that Kepler & Newton's laws are best expressed in a heliocentric frame. However, the raw data of observations is actually made in a geocentric frame. Geocentric models stay closer to the data in some sense.  * Epicyclic theory is now considered bad, an example of people refusing to see the light of scientific revolution. But actually, it was an enormous innovation. Using high-precision gearing epicycles could be actually implemented on a (Hellenistic) computer  implicitly doing Fourier analysis to predict the motion of the planets. Astounding.  * A Roman author (Pliny the Elder?) describes a similar device in posession of Archimedes of Rhodes. It seems likely that Archimedes or a close
2johnlawrenceaspden2h
I don't buy this, the curvedness of the sea is obvious to sailors, e.g. you see the tops of islands long before you see the beach, and indeed to anyone who has ever swum across a bay! Inland peoples might be able to believe the world is flat, but not anyone with boats.
4Alexander Gietelink Oldenziel2h
Singular Learning Theory is another way of "talking about the breadth of optima" in the same sense that Newton's Universal Law of Gravitation is another way of "talking about Things Falling Down". 
11Eric Neyman7h
I think that people who work on AI alignment (including me) have generally not put enough thought into the question of whether a world where we build an aligned AI is better by their values than a world where we build an unaligned AI. I'd be interested in hearing people's answers to this question. Or, if you want more specific questions: * By your values, do you think a misaligned AI creates a world that "rounds to zero", or still has substantial positive value? * A common story for why aligned AI goes well goes something like: "If we (i.e. humanity) align AI, we can and will use it to figure out what we should use it for, and then we will use it in that way." To what extent is aligned AI going well contingent on something like this happening, and how likely do you think it is to happen? Why? * To what extent is your belief that aligned AI would go well contingent on some sort of assumption like: my idealized values are the same as the idealized values of the people or coalition who will control the aligned AI? * Do you care about AI welfare? Does your answer depend on whether the AI is aligned? If we built an aligned AI, how likely is it that we will create a world that treats AI welfare as important consideration? What if we build a misaligned AI? * Do you think that, to a first approximation, most of the possible value of the future happens in worlds that are optimized for something that resembles your current or idealized values? How bad is it to mostly sacrifice each of these? (What if the future world's values are similar to yours, but is only kinda effectual at pursuing them? What if the world is optimized for something that's only slightly correlated with your values?) How likely are these various options under an aligned AI future vs. an unaligned AI future?
Ann1h10

I feel like there's a spectrum, here? An AI fully aligned to the intentions, goals, preferences and values of, say, Google the company, is not one I expect to be perfectly aligned with the ultimate interests of existence as a whole, but it's probably actually picked up something better than the systemic-incentive-pressured optimization target of Google the corporation, so long as it's actually getting preferences and values from people developing it rather than just being a myopic profit pursuer. An AI properly aligned with the one and only goal of maximiz... (read more)

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