Recent Discussion

I try not to have opinions
42d1 min readShow Highlight

Consider two kinds of mental judgments.

  1. Beliefs are judgments of truths. (Ex. "I believe that 2 plus 2 equals 4." "I am 85% confident that Mozambique is located in Africa.")
  2. Preferences are things people like or don't like. The existance or nonexistance of a preference is a fact.

What, then is an opinion?

"judgment or belief not founded on certainty or proof" — dictionary.com

To form a belief without proof or uncertainty is a recipe for overconfidence. The more opinions you have the more likely you are to be wrong. More importantly, opinions undermine your error correction system. You can'

... (Read more)

So I usually use the word "opinion" to mean "belief".

Two Dark Side Statistics Papers
106y6 min readShow Highlight

I.

First we have False Positive Psychology: Undisclosed Flexibility In Data Collection And Analysis Allows Presenting Anything As Significant (h/t Jonas Vollmer).

The message is hardly unique: there are lots of tricks unscrupulous or desperate scientists can use to artificially nudge results to the 5% significance level. The clarity of the presentation is unique. They start by discussing four particular tricks:

1. Measure multiple dependent variables, then report the ones that are significant. For example, if you’re measuring whether treatment for a certain psychiatric disorder improves lif... (Read more)

I'm curious about the remaining 3% of people in the 97% program, who apparently both managed to smuggle some booze into rehab, and then admitted this to the staff while they were checking out. Lizardman's constant?

What are we assuming about utility functions?Ω
113h2 min readΩ 5Show Highlight

I often notice that in many (not all) discussions about utility functions, one side is "for" their relevance, while others tend to be "against" their usefulness, without explicitly saying what they mean. I don't think this is causing any deep confusions among researchers here, but I'd still like to take a stab at disambiguating some of this, if nothing else for my own sake. Here are some distinct (albeit related) ways that utility functions can come up in AI safety, in terms of what assumptions/hypotheses they give rise to:

AGI utility hypothesis: The first AGI wil... (Read more)

In particular, the coherence arguments and other pressures that move agents toward VNM seem to roughly scale with capabilities.

One nit I keep picking whenever it comes up: VNM is not really a coherence theorem. The VNM utility theorem operates from four axioms, and only two of those four are relevant to coherence. The main problem is that the axioms relevant to coherence (acyclicity and completeness) do not say anything at all about probability and the role that it plays - the "expected" part of "expected utility" does not arise from a ... (Read more)(Click to expand thread. ⌘F to Expand All)Cmd/Ctrl F to expand all comments on this post

LW Team Updates - October 2019
1819h2 min readShow Highlight

Like last month, this is a once-monthly updates for LessWrong team activities and announcements.

Please also feel free to use the comments section on this post as a Schelling point to give feedback, file bug reports, or ask questions you have about the site. (You can also email us, ask a question, use Intercom, or message us via our FB page.)

Recent Features

Link Previews

We successfully shipped Link Previews in September. Now when you hover of an embedded link you get a pop-up, for internal links to LessWrong posts you get a preview. See the full announcement here.


Improvements to the Community Ma... (Read more)

3Pattern1h Errata: report [false] of incoming missiles report incoming missiles pass on a report of incoming missiles [which was a false alarm] Looking forward to this: Stand by for a post describing the experiment and how it went.
Eigil Rischel's Shortform
11moShow Highlight

I've noticed a sort of tradeoff in how I use planning/todo systems (having experimented with several such systems recently). This mainly applies to planning things with no immediate deadline, where it's more about how to split a large amount of available time between a large number of tasks, rather than about remembering which things to do when. For instance, think of a personal reading list - there is no hurry to read any particular things on it, but you do want to be spending your reading time effectively.

On one extreme, I make a commitment to myself to

... (Read more)(Click to expand thread. ⌘F to Expand All)Cmd/Ctrl F to expand all comments on this post

I am a PhD student currently conducting research on political polarization and persuasion.  I am running an experiment that requires a database of trivia questions which conservatives are likely to get correct, and liberals are likely to get wrong (and vice versa).  Our pilot testing has shown, for example, Democrats (but not Republicans) tend to overestimate the percentage of gun deaths that involve assault-style rifles, while Republicans (but not Democrats) tend overestimate the proportion of illegal immigrants who commit violent crimes. Similarly, Democrats (but not Republicans) ... (Read more)

3gwern1h One suggestion would be to datamine the GSS: look for items which most discriminate between partisan affiliation, which would reflect factual claims.

This is a good idea. Will work on this now. Thanks! For "Knowledge Desert" questions (non-political questions where only one party will have a strong hunch about), I looked at patterns of co-following activity on Twitter and Reddit. So, for example, people who followed conservative Senators/Representatives on Twitter also tended to follow certain kinds of sports (e.g. baseball and UFC), and certain kinds of restaurants (e.g. Bob Evan's Steakhouse and Cracker Barrel). Similarly, people who subscribed to /r/TheDonald also followed stereoty... (Read more)(Click to expand thread. ⌘F to Expand All)Cmd/Ctrl F to expand all comments on this post

World State is the Wrong Level of Abstraction for ImpactΩ
351d2 min readΩ 9Show Highlight

These existential crises also muddle our impact algorithm. This isn't what you'd see if impact were primarily about the world state.

Appendix: We Asked a Wrong Question

How did we go wrong?

When you are faced with an unanswerable question—a question to which it seems impossible to even imagine an answer—there is a simple trick that can turn the question solvable.
Asking “Why do I have free will?” or “Do I have free will?” sends you off thinking about tiny details of the laws of physics, so distant from the macroscopi
... (Read more)
10Kaj_Sotala4h Great sequence! What's happening here is a failure to map our new representation of the world to things we find valuable.It didn't occur to me to apply the notion to questions of limited impact, but I arrived at a very similar model when trying to figure out how humans navigate ontological crises. In the LW articles "The problem of alien concepts [https://www.lesswrong.com/s/8Kc3YamAyaACWXwb3/p/Mizt7thg22iFiKERM]" and "What are concepts for, and how to deal with alien concepts [https://www.lesswrong.com/s/8Kc3YamAyaACWXwb3/p/wCyTJ6WizA2cBQP5j]", as well as my later paper "Defining Human Values for Value Learners [https://intelligence.org/files/DefiningValuesForValueLearners.pdf]", I was working with the premise that ontologies (which I called "concepts") are generated as a tool which lets us fulfill our primary values: We should expect an evolutionarily successful organism to develop concepts that abstract over situations that are similar with regards to receiving a reward from the optimal reward function. Suppose that a certain action in state s1 gives the organism a reward, and that there are also states s2–s5 in which taking some specific action causes the organism to end up in s1. Then we should expect the organism to develop a common concept for being in the states s2–s5, and we should expect that concept to be “more similar” to the concept of being in state s1 than to the concept of being in some state that was many actions away. [...]I suggest that human values are concepts which abstract over situations in which we’ve previously received rewards, making those concepts and the situations associated with them valued for their own sake. (Defining Human Values for Value Learners, p. 3) Let me put this in terms of the locality example from your previous post [https://www.lesswrong.com/s/7CdoznhJaLEKHwvJW/p/C74F7QTEAYSTGAytJ]: Suppose that state s1 is "me having a giant stack of money"; in this state, it is easy for me to spend the money in order to get someth
5TurnTrout3h I really like this line of thinking. Then, if one runs into an ontological crisis, one can in principle re-generate their ontology by figuring out how to reason in terms of the new ontology in order to best fulfill their values. I've found myself confused by how the process at the end of this sentence works. It seems like there's some abstract "will this worldview lead to value fulfillment?" question being asked, even though the core values seem undefined during an ontological crisis! I agree that once you can regenerate the ontology once you have the core values redefined.

I really like this line of thinking.

Thanks! I've really liked yours, too.

I don't think that the real core values are affected during most ontological crises. I suspect that the real core values are things like feeling loved vs. despised, safe vs. threatened, competent vs. useless, etc. Crucially, what is optimized for is a feeling, not an external state.

Of course, the subsystems which compute where we feel on those axes need to take external data as input. I don't have a very good model of how exactly they work, but I'm guessing that their internal mode

... (Read more)(Click to expand thread. ⌘F to Expand All)Cmd/Ctrl F to expand all comments on this post
5Matthew Barnett15h So my feeling is that in order to actually implement an AI that does not cause bad kinds of high impact, we would need to make progress on value learning Optimizing for a 'slightly off' utility function might be catastrophic, and therefore the margin for error for value learning could be narrow. However, it seems plausible that if your impact measurement used slightly incorrect utility functions to define the auxillary set, this would not cause a similar error. Thus, it seems intuitive to me that you would need less progress on value learning than a full solution for impact measures to work. From the AUP paper [https://arxiv.org/pdf/1902.09725.pdf], one of our key findings is that AUP tends to preserve the ability to optimize the correct reward function even when the correct reward function is not included in the auxiliary set.
Follow-Up to Petrov Day, 2019
815d2 min readShow Highlight

Hurrah! Success! I didn't know what to expect, and am pleasantly surprised to find the Frontpage is still intact. My thanks to everyone who took part, to everyone who commented on yesterday's post, and to everyone who didn't unilaterally blow up the site.

Launch Attempts Results

I said I would share usernames and codes of all attempts to launch the codes. Others on the team told me this seemed like a bad idea in many ways, and on reflection I agree - I think many people were not aware they were signing up for being publicly named and shamed, and I think it's good that people ... (Read more)

I clicked the button :( But, I clicked it because the first thing I saw on the page was a big shiny button and hadn't been on the site in a few day and didn't know what it would do. I would not have entered codes if I'd had them. Maybe give a more noticeable warning next to the button next time? Maybe something like "Warning, pressing this button will..." in red text.

Fun experiment

4Davidmanheim8h Re: examples of point #1, I don't think that shaming in this forum is productive - it's polarizing and stigmatizing rather than helpful. But I do know of several individuals and a couple organizations which are guilty of this, each repeatedly. I do think that people should be more willing to personally / privately respond if someone does something, and I have done so in several specific cases where someone decided on a unilateralist approach that I thought was damaging.
What is operations?
956d7 min readShow Highlight

This the first in a sequence of posts about “operations”.

Acknowledgements to Malo Bourgon, Ray Arnold, Michelle Hutchinson, and Ruby for their feedback on this post.

My ops background

Several years ago, I decided to focus on operations work for my career. From 2017 to 2019 I was one of the operations staff at the Center for Effective Altruism, initially as the operations manager and later as the the Finance Lead. Prior to that, I was a volunteer logistics lead at approximately 10 CFAR workshops; I also ran ops for SPARC twice, and for a five day AI-safety retreat. I also attribute... (Read more)

14weft13h Random thought: Before working in operations, I was a nanny for many years. Before that I was doing research while in grad school. I've always been bemused by the differences between the way people perceive and treat me in my various roles over the years. Particularly, operations jobs (and childcare jobs) are possibly not a great idea for people whose identity is strongly centered around being (perceived as) intelligent: Most of your work isn't the sort of work that proves how smart you are. Coworkers expectations of your intelligence will be much lower. The skills you need run towards conscientiousness and agreeableness, which are traits that people stereotype as correlated with lower intelligence. Because your tasks are so wide ranging, there will always be things you are brand new at, therefore less competent at. I've pushed my identity over the years more into being "a responsible hard worker", so that people's opinions of my intelligence don't feel meaningful at all. Given that I feel the need to have SOME sort of identity, this seems like a more useful one. Identifying as "smart" can't do anything to change my underlying g factor. But identifying as responsible and hard working is likely to actually make me behave in those ways. I'm mostly bringing this up because LW readers often highly value being regarded as intelligent, and it might be a thing to take stock of before aiming for a new career in operations.

This is, unfortunately, kind of true in practice. (Although, ideally, is and will become a bit less true at major EA orgs - CEA was pretty good on this dimension and I never felt like people saw me as less intelligent, although that could be because it's less a part of my identity so I didn't notice).

I do think that ops work, especially the finance & accounting aspects, is pretty G-loaded, and that people wrongly perceive this as not the case. Anyway, I hope to discuss all of this more in a later post about the personal fit aspect.

[Event]LW Montreal Meetup – Oct. 2th 2019
1Oct 1stMontreal, QC, CanadaShow Highlight

Hello friends,

We'll explore Part 2 of our exploration of the Uruk Series by looking at the relationships between narcissism, social invasion, and democracy, as brought about from sam[]zdat's Uruk Series: https://samzdat.com/the-uruk-series

Whereas Part 1 was more focused in concept acquisition, Part 2 is more focused on retrieving insights from these concepts.

Take home booklets will be distributed to all :)

Format: We meet and start hanging out at 6:00pm. At around 6:45pm, we'll do a (very) short recap of what these events are about, and then start going through the text together,... (Read more)

Noticing Frame Differences
1053d8 min readShow Highlight

Previously: Keeping Beliefs Cruxy


When disagreements persist despite lengthy good-faith communication, it may not just be about factual disagreements – it could be due to people operating in entirely different frames — different ways of seeing, thinking and/or communicating.

If you can’t notice when this is happening, or you don’t have the skills to navigate it, you may waste a lot of time.

Examples of Broad Frames

Gears-oriented Frames

Bob and Alice’s conversation is about cause and effect. Neither of them are planning to take direct actions based on their conve... (Read more)

So the connection is "The straightforward way to increase epistemological competence is to talk about beliefs in detail. In introspection it is hard to apply this method because details can't be effectively shared to get an understanding". It seems to me it is not about gear-frames being special but that frames have preconditions to get them to work and an area that allows/permits a lot of frames makes it hard to hit any frames prequisities.

Double Tongue Whistling
87h1 min readShow Highlight
I can whistle about seven notes per second, which corresponds to a reel at 105bpm. [1] While this isn't a problem for whistling basslines it's slightly too slow for melodies at contra dance speed (~110-122bpm). I want to figure out how to whistle faster, and I know there are people who whistle faster, but I don't know how it's usually done.

I see two main routes:

  • Do what I currently do, but faster.

  • Figure out how to do something else.

The former doesn't seem very promising: I've been playing around with whistling for decades and I suspect I'm pretty close to a local maximu... (Read more)

I can get sharp and rapid changes in my whistle by changing the way air flows across the lateral part of my tongue. In my normal whistling posture, that part of my tongue does something like what it does during a particularly hard /ɹ/ sound: it basically presses into the top molars. During fast whistling (and arpeggios), one side moves to let air pass more like what that part does during an /l/ sound. The rest of the tongue seems to move a tiny bit forward and up to accomplish this change. The end result is a very fast "flipping" feeling between notes and

... (Read more)(Click to expand thread. ⌘F to Expand All)Cmd/Ctrl F to expand all comments on this post

I frequently hear the advice that it's better to sleep on the back and worthwhile to learn to sleep on your back. Are there any studies that backup that advice. Otherwise are there other good arguments? Personal experience is also welcome.

It seems like this particular video basically says:

  • "Snoring is really bad and side-sleepers snore less." It seems that actually monitoring whether one snores via an app and them optimizing based on the answer is
  • Hunter gatherers sleep mostly on the side. Other great apes also sleep more on the side.
  • An argument about the waste clearing the body working better on the side (I don't know how strong his case is on that point)

In total it says there's no strong evidence but the evidence they reviewed point to side sleeping being better

[Event]Cambridge LW/SSC Meetup
5Oct 6thCambridgeShow Highlight

This is the monthly Cambridge, MA LessWrong / Slate Star Codex meetup.

Note: The meetup is in apartment 2 (the address box here won't let me include the apartment number).

Does the US nuclear policy still target cities?
1918h9 min readShow Highlight

The history of nuclear strategic bombing

Daniel Ellsberg’s The Doomsday Machine brought my attention to a horrifying fact about early US nuclear targeting policy. In 1961, the US had only one nuclear war plan, and it called for the destruction of every major Soviet city and military target. That is not surprising. However, the plan also called for the destruction of every major Chinese city and military target, even if China had not provoked the United States. In other words, the US nuclear war plan called for the destruction of the major population centers of the most populous country i... (Read more)

6David_Gross16h In his book "Among the Dead Cities", A.C. Grayling looks at the Allied policy of aerial bombardment of Axis population centers, including the aims of the policy, how it was carried out, and its results. He concludes that it wasn't justified even in the conventional-weapons era; it was not militarily effective, particularly compared to other possible policies/targets, and it was a violation of even the bare minimum standards that the Allies later considered sufficiently self-evident to use as the basis for war crimes trials. The justification you mention ("to destroy the ability of the enemy states to continue to make war... because the factories have been destroyed or because there are no longer people to work in the factories") is something of a post-hoc search for a rationalization. If the Allies had wanted to attack factories, they could have concentrated on attacking factories. Instead they attacked population centers in order to kill and terrorize the people living there. This did not have the hoped-for negative effect on war-fighting morale (for the same reason 9/11 didn't discourage the U.S. from meddling in the Middle East), and can probably better be explained as a policy motivated by malice and vengeance than by coldly thought-through strategic planning. https://sniggle.net/TPL/index5.php?entry=18May11 [https://sniggle.net/TPL/index5.php?entry=18May11]

I didn't want to go into arguments about whether WWII strategic bombing was effective because it's a point historians have argued amount a fair bit and I wanted to focus on the nuclear targeting question. I do think it's an interesting / important question. I believe the original justification, at least for Britain and the United States, was to destroy the industrial capacity of the nation. The Norden bombsight was hoped to enable more targeting bombing. Then air defenses proved too powerful for day bombing, so the British and American air f... (Read more)(Click to expand thread. ⌘F to Expand All)Cmd/Ctrl F to expand all comments on this post

Open & Welcome Thread - October 2019
719h1 min readShow Highlight
  • If it’s worth saying, but not worth its own post, here's a place to put it.
  • And, if you are new to LessWrong, here's the place to introduce yourself.
    • Personal stories, anecdotes, or just general comments on how you found us and what you hope to get from the site and community are welcome.

If you want to explore the community more, I recommend reading the Library, checking recent Curated posts, seeing if there are any meetups in your area, and checking out the Getting Started section of the LessWrong FAQ.

The Open Thread sequence is here.

13countedblessings16h Would people be interested in a series of posts about category theory? There's a lot of great introductions to the subject out there, but I'd like to fill a particular niche—I don't want to assume my audience knows topology yet. I think you can still get a lot of value out of category theory at the high school senior level.

That sounds quite interesting to me.

[AN #66]: Decomposing robustness into capability robustness and alignment robustness
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I do, however, believe that the single step cooperate-defect game which they use to come up with their factors seems like a very simple model for what will be a very complex system of interactions. For example, AI development will take place over time, and it is likely that the same companies will continue to interact with one another. Iterated games have very different dynamics, and I hope that future work will explore how this would affect their current recommendations, and whether it would yield new approaches to incentivizing cooperation.

It may be diff... (Read more)(Click to expand thread. ⌘F to Expand All)Cmd/Ctrl F to expand all comments on this post

Survival and Flourishing Fund Applications closing in 3 days
1918h1 min readShow Highlight

The grant round we announced a month ago for the new Survival and Flourishing Fund is closing in 3 days. We haven't gotten that many applications, so I would recommend applying.

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/CcAnPPKmPmbXxtWME/survival-and-flourishing-fund-grant-applications-open-until

From the original announcement post:

The plan is to make a total of $1MM-$2MM in grants to organizations working on the long term flourishing and survival of humanity.
At this point in time SFF can only make grants to charities and not individuals, so if you have a project or organization that you want to ge
... (Read more)
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