I don't see any problems with this whatsoever. I am not obligated to convert to the values of the majority. What is the issue that you see?

And they aren't obligated to convert to your values. Not everyone can have their way! Democratic voting is the fairest way of making a decision when people can't agree.

There is a bit of a true Scotsman odor to this question :-) but let me point out my example upthread and ask you whether the Nazi party came to power democratically.

Yes I know it's No-True-Scotsman-y, but I really believe that a totally informed population would make very different decisions than an angry mob during a war and depression.

And even your examples are not convincing. Internment during wartime wasn't anywhere near the level of genocide. And the Nazi election was far from fair:

...the Nazis "unleashed a campaign of violence and terror that dwarfed anything seen so far." Storm troopers began attacking trade union and Communist Party (KPD) offices and the homes of left-wingers. In the second half of February, the violence was extended to the Social Democrats, with gangs of brownshirts breaking up Social Democrat meetings and beating up their speakers and audiences. Issues of Social Democratic newspapers were banned. Twenty newspapers of the Centre Party, a party of Catholic Germans, were banned in mid-February for criticizing the new government. Government officials known to be Centre Party supporters were dismissed from their offices, and stormtroopers violently attacked party meetings in Westphalia.

Six days before the scheduled election date, the German parliament building was set alight in the Reichstag fire, allegedly by the Dutch Communist Marinus van der Lubbe. This event reduced the popularity of the KPD... This emergency law removed many civil liberties and allowed the arrest of... 4,000 leaders and members of the KPD shortly before the election, suppressing the Communist vote and consolidating the position of the Nazis. The KPD was effectively outlawed...

The resources of big business and the state were thrown behind the Nazis' campaign to achieve saturation coverage all over Germany. Brownshirts and SS patrolled and marched menacingly through the streets of cities and towns. A "combination of terror, repression and propaganda was mobilized in every... community, large and small, across the land." To further ensure the outcome of the vote would be a Nazi majority, Nazi organizations "monitored" the vote process. In Prussia 50,000 members of the SS, SA and Stahlhelm were ordered to monitor the votes as deputy sheriffs by acting Interior Minister Hermann Göring.


At this level you might as well cut to the chase and go straight to "I wish for you to do what I should wish for". No need to try to tell God... err.. AI how to do it.

Well I did mention that in my first comment. This is more of an aesthetic thing to talk about. Once we have an AI we can just ask it how to solve this problem.

But I still think it's somewhat important to think about. Because if we go with your solution, we just get whatever the creator of the AI wants. He becomes supreme dictator of the universe forever, and forces his values on everyone for eternity. I would much rather have CEV or something like it.

Democratic voting is the fairest way of making a decision when people can't agree.

That sounds like an article of faith.

"Fair" is a very... relative world. Calling something "fair" rarely means more than "I like / approve of it".

This is more of an aesthetic thing to talk about.

Ah. Well, speaking aesthetically, I find the elevation of mob rule to be the ultimate moral principle ugly and repugnant. Y'know, de gustibus 'n'all...

if we go with your solution

I don't believe I proposed any.

Open thread, Oct. 19 - Oct. 25, 2015

by MrMind 1 min read19th Oct 2015198 comments


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