Honestly if I ever found my values following valutron outputs in unexpected ways like that, I'd suspect some terrible joker from beyond the matrix was messing with the utility function in my brain and quite possibly with the physics too.
We don't find ourselves surprised by ethics on the basis of some external condition that we are checking against, so we can conclude that there IS a difference between "subjective" and "objective" ethics. In fact, when humans try to make systems that way, we end up revising them as our subjective values change, which you would not expect if our values were actually coming from an objective source.
Right.
Which very well describes the... (read more)
...I guess I would get valutron-dynamics worked out, and engineer systems to yield maximum valutron output?
Except that I'd only do that if I believed it would be a handy shortcut to a higher output from my internal utility function that I already hold as subjectively "correct".
ie, if valutron physics somehow gave a low yield for making delicious food for friends, and a high yield for knifing everyone, I would still support good hosting and oppose stabbytimes.
So the answer is, apparently, even if the scenarios you conjure came to pass, I would still treat oughts and is-es as distinctly different types from each other, in the same way I do now.
But I still can't equate those scenarios with giving any meaning to "values having some metaphysically basic truth".
Although the valutron-engineering idea seems like a good idea for a fun absurdist sci-fi short story =]
would you treat your oughts any different if they DID turn out to be based in some metaphysically basic truth somehow?
I... can't even answer that, because I can't conceive of a way in which that COULD be true. What would it even MEAN?
Still seems like a harmless corpse to me. I mean, not to knock your frankenskillz, but it seems like sewing butterfly wings onto a dead earthworm and putting it on top of a 9 volt battery. XD
Heh, yeah, it's kind of an odd case in which the fact that you want to write a particular bottom line before you begin is quite possibly an argument for that bottom line?
Quite honestly that zombie doesn't even seem to be animated to me. My ability to discriminate 'ises' and 'oughts' as two distinct types feels pretty damn natural and instinctive to me.
What bothered me was the question of whether my oughts were internally inconsistent.
...I don't think "don't engage the problem at all" is really a viable option. Once you've taken the red pill, you can't really go back up the rabbit hole, right?
My original problem immediately made me think, "Okay, this conclusion is totally bumming me out, but I'm pretty sure it's coming from an incomplete application of logic". So I went with that and more-or-less solved it. I could do with having my solution more succinctly expressed, in a snappy, catchy sentence or two, but it seems to work. What I'm asking here is, has anybody else had to solve this problem, and how did they do it?
... (read more)what difference in sensory experience do you
Yes, exactly. I'm glad I was at least clear enough for someone to get that point. =]
Yous missin' da point dere.
....Ha! Guys, I should have made this clearer. I don't need counseling. I more-or-less fixed my problem for myself. By which I mean I could do with having it expressed for myself a bit more succinctly in a snappy, catchy sentence or two, but essentially, I got it already.
My point in bringing it to this audience was, "Hey, pretty sure generalizing fundamental techniques of human rationality shouldn't cause existential angst. Seems like a problem that comes from and incomplete application of rationality to the issue. I think I figured out how to solve it for myself, but has anyone else ever had this problem, and how did you solve it?"
And we're talking... (read more)
Ha, I aint exactly about to off myself any time soon! :P
I said this was a problem I more-or-less fixed for myself.
The bits of it that could be handled off of lesswrong, I did.
I'm not looking for counseling here. I'm looking to see how other people try to solve the philosophical problem.
(Or possibly the worst kind of zombie. But still, metaphorically.)
Since I was a kid, as far back as I can remember having thought about the issue at all, the basic arguments against existential angst have seemed obvious to me.
I used to express it something like: "If nothing really matters [ie, values aren’t objective, or however I put it back then], then it doesn't matter that nothing matters. If I choose to hold something as important, I can't be wrong."
However, a few months ago, it occurred to me to apply another principle of rationality to the issue, and that actually caused me to start... (read 635 more words →)
I... don't think that metaphor actually connects to any choices you can actually make.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against ignoring things. There are so many things you could pay attention to and the vast majority simply aren't worth it.
But when you find yourself afraid, or uneasy, or upset, I don't think you should ignore it. I don't think you really can.
There's got to be... (read more)