I'll preface this by saying that I haven't spent much time engaging with your material (it's been on my to-do list for a very long time), and could well be misunderstanding things, and that I have great respect for what you're trying to do. So you and everyone can feel free to ignore this, but here I go anyway.
OK, maybe the most basic reason that I'm skeptical of your STV stuff is that I'm going in expecting a, um, computational theory of valence, suffering, etc. As in, the brain has all those trillions of synapses and intricate circuitry in order to do evolutionary-fitness-improving calculations, and suffering is part of those calculations (e.g. other things equal, I'd rather not suffer, and I make decisions accordingly, and this presumably has helped my ancestors to survive and have more viable children).
So let's say we're sitting together at a computer, and we're running a Super Mario executable on an emulator, and we're watching the bits in the processor's SRAM. You tell me: "Take the bits in the SRAM register, and take the Fourier transform, and look at the spectrum (≈ absolute value of the Fourier components). If most of the spectral weight is in long-wavelength components, e.g. the bits are "11111000111100000000...", then Mario is doing really well in the game. If most of the spectral weight is in the short-wavelength components, e.g. the bits are "101010101101010", then Mario is doing poorly in the game. That's my theory!"
I would say "Ummm, I mean, I guess that's possible. But if that's true at all, it's not an explanation, it's a random coincidence."
(This isn't a perfect analogy, just trying to gesture at where I'm coming from right now.)
So that's the real reason I don't believe in STV—it just looks wrong to me, in the same way that Mario's progress should not look like certain types of large-scale structure in SRAM bits.
I want a better argument than that though. So here are a few more specific things:
(1) waves and symmetries don't carry many bits of information. If you think valence and suffering are fundamentally few-dimensional, maybe that doesn't bother you; but I think it's at least possible for people know whether they're suffering from arm pain or finger pain or air-hunger or guilt or whatever. I guess I raised this issue in an offhand comment a couple years ago, and lsusr responded, and then I apparently dropped out of the conversation, I guess I must have gotten busy or something, hmm I guess I should read that. :-/
(2) From the outside, it's easy to look at an fMRI or whatever and talk about its harmonic decomposition and symmetries. But from the perspective of any one neuron, that information is awfully hard to access. It's not impossible, but I think you'd need the neuron to have a bunch of inputs from across the brain hooked into complicated timing circuits etc. My starting point, as I mentioned, is that suffering causes behavioral changes (including self-reports, trying not to suffer, etc.), so there has to be a way for the "am I suffering" information to impact specific brain computations, and I don't know what that mechanism is in STV. (In the Mario analogy, if you just look at one SRAM bit, or even a few bits, you get almost no information about the spectrum of the whole SRAM register.) If "suffering" was a particular signal carried by a particular neurotransmitter, for example, we wouldn't have that problem, we just take that signal and wire it to whatever circuits need to be modulated by the presence/absence of suffering. So theories like that strike me as more plausible.
(3) Conversely, I'm confused at how you would tell a story where getting tortured (for example) leads to suffering. This is just the opposite of the previous one: Just as a brain-wide harmonic decomposition can't have a straightforward and systematic impact on a specific neural signal, likewise a specific neural signal can't have a straightforward and systematic impact on a brain-wide harmonic decomposition, as far as I can tell.
(4) I don't have a particularly well-formed alternative theory to STV, but all the most intriguing ideas that I've played around with so far that seem to have something to do with the nature of valence and suffering (e.g. here , here , various other things I haven't written up) look wildly different from STV. Instead they tend to involve certain signals in the insular cortex and reticular activating system and those signals have certain effects on decisionmaking circuits, blah blah blah.
Thanks for your reply.
If you ask me a question about, umm, I’m not sure the exact term, let’s say “3rd-person-observable properties of the physical world that have something to do with the human brain”—questions like “When humans emit self-reports about their own conscious experience, why do they often describe it as having properties A,B,C?” or “When humans move their mouths and say words on the topic of ‘qualia’, why do they often describe it as having properties X,Y,Z?”—then I feel like I’m on pretty firm ground, and that I’m in my comfort zone, and tha... (read more)
Crossposted from opentheory.net
STV is Qualia Research Institute‘s candidate for a universal theory of valence, first proposed in Principia Qualia (2016). The following is a brief discussion of why existing theories are unsatisfying, what STV says, and key milestones so far.
I. Suffering is a puzzle
We know suffering when we feel it — but what is it? What would a satisfying answer for this even look like?
The psychological default model of suffering is “suffering is caused by not getting what you want.” This is the model that evolution has primed us toward. Empirically, it appears false (1)(2).
The Buddhist critique suggests that most suffering actually comes from holding this as our model of suffering. My co-founder Romeo Stevens suggests that we create a huge amount of unpleasantness by identifying with the sensations we want and making a commitment to ‘dukkha’ ourselves until we get them. When this fails to produce happiness, we take our failure as evidence we simply need to be more skillful in controlling our sensations, to work harder to get what we want, to suffer more until we reach our goal — whereas in reality there is no reasonable way we can force our sensations to be “stable, controllable, and satisfying” all the time. As Romeo puts it, “The mind is like a child that thinks that if it just finds the right flavor of cake it can live off of it with no stomach aches or other negative results.”
Buddhism itself is a brilliant internal psychology of suffering (1)(2), but has strict limits: it’s dogmatically silent on the influence of external factors on suffering, such as health, relationships, or anything having to do with the brain.
The Aristotelian model of suffering & well-being identifies a set of baseline conditions and virtues for human happiness, with suffering being due to deviations from these conditions. Modern psychology and psychiatry are tacitly built on this model, with one popular version being Seligman’s PERMA Model: P – Positive Emotion; E – Engagement; R – Relationships; M – Meaning; A – Accomplishments. Chris Kresser and other ‘holistic medicine’ practitioners are synthesizing what I would call ‘Paleo Psychology’, which suggests that we should look at our evolutionary history to understand the conditions for human happiness, with a special focus on nutrition, connection, sleep, and stress.
I have a deep affection for these ways of thinking and find them uncannily effective at debugging hedonic problems. But they’re not proper theories of mind, and say little about the underlying metaphysics or variation of internal experience.
Neurophysiological models of suffering try to dig into the computational utility and underlying biology of suffering. Bright spots include Friston & Seth, Panksepp, Joffily, and Eldar talking about emotional states being normative markers of momentum (i.e. whether you should keep doing what you’re doing, or switch things up), and Wager, Tracey, Kucyi, Osteen, and others discussing neural correlates of pain. These approaches are clearly important parts of the story, but tend to be descriptive rather than predictive, either focusing on ‘correlation collecting’ or telling a story without grounding that story in mechanism.
QRI thinks not having a good answer to the question of suffering is a core bottleneck for neuroscience, drug development, and next-generation mental health treatments, as well as philosophical questions about the future direction of civilization. We think this question is also much more tractable than people realize, that there are trillion-dollar bills on the sidewalk, waiting to be picked up if we just actually try.
II. QRI’s model of suffering – history & roadmap
What does “actually trying” to solve suffering look like? I can share what we’ve done, what we’re doing, and our future directions.
QRI.2016: We released the world’s first crisp formalism for pain and pleasure: the Symmetry Theory of Valence (STV)
QRI had a long exploratory gestation period as we explored various existing answers and identified their inadequacies. Things started to ‘gel’ as we identified and collected core research lineages that any fundamentally satisfying answer must engage with.
A key piece of the puzzle for me was Integrated Information Theory (IIT), the first attempt at a formal bridge between phenomenology and causal emergence (Tononi et. al 2004, 2008, 2012). The goal of IIT is to create a mathematical object ‘isomorphic to’ a system’s phenomenology — that is to say, to create a perfect mathematical representation of what it feels like to be something. If it’s possible to create such a mathematical representation of an experience, then how pleasant or unpleasant the experience is should be ‘baked into’ this representation somehow.
In 2016 I introduced the Symmetry Theory of Valence (STV) built on the expectation that, although the details of IIT may not yet be correct, it has the correct goal — to create a mathematical formalism for consciousness. STV proposes that, given such a mathematical representation of an experience, the symmetry of this representation will encode how pleasant the experience is (Johnson 2016). STV is a formal, causal expression of the sentiment that “suffering is lack of harmony in the mind” and allowed us to make philosophically clear assertions such as:
This also let us begin to pose first-principles, conceptual-level models for affective mechanics: e.g., ‘pleasure centers’ function as pleasure centers insofar as they act as tuning knobs for harmony in the brain.
QRI.2017: We figured out how to apply our formalism to brains in an elegant way: CDNS
We had a formal hypothesis that harmony in the brain feels good, and dissonance feels bad. But how do we measure harmony and dissonance, given how noisy most forms of neuroimaging are?
An external researcher, Selen Atasoy, had the insight to use resonance as a proxy for characteristic activity. Neural activity may often look random— a confusing cacophony— but if we look at activity as the sum of all natural resonances of a system we can say a great deal about how the system works, and which configuration the system is currently in, with a few simple equations. Atasoy’s contribution here was connectome-specific harmonic waves (CSHW), an experimental method for doing this with fMRI (Atasoy et. al 2016; 2017a; 2017b). This is similar to how mashing keys on a piano might produce a confusing mix of sounds, but through applying harmonic decomposition to this sound we can calculate which notes must have been played to produce it. There are many ways to decompose brain activity into various parameters or dimensions; CSHW’s strength is it grounds these dimensions in physical mechanism: resonance within the connectome. (See also work by Helmholtz, Tesla, and Lehar.)
QRI built our ‘Consonance Dissonance Noise Signature’ (CDNS) method around combining STV with Atasoy’s work: my co-founder Andrés Gomez Emilsson had the key insight that if Atasoy’s method can give us a power-weighted list of harmonics in the brain, we can take this list and do a pairwise ‘CDNS’ analysis between harmonics and sum the result to figure out how much total consonance, dissonance, and noise a brain has (Gomez Emilsson 2017). Consonance is roughly equivalent to symmetry (invariance under transforms) in the time domain, and so the consonance between these harmonics should be a reasonable measure for the ‘symmetry’ of STV. This process offers a clean, empirical measure for how much harmony (and lack thereof) there is in a mind, structured in a way that lets us be largely agnostic about the precise physical substrate of consciousness.
With this, we had a full empirical theory of suffering.
QRI.2018: We invested in the CSHW paradigm and built ‘trading material’ for collaborations
We had our theory, and tried to get the data to test it. We decided that if STV is right, it should let us build better theory, and this should open doors for collaboration. This led us through a detailed exploration of the implications of CSHW (Johnson 2018a), and original work on the neuroscience of meditation (Johnson 2018b) and the phenomenology of time (Gomez Emilsson 2018).
QRI.2019: We synthesized a new neuroscience paradigm (Neural Annealing)
2019 marked a watershed for us in a number of ways. On the theory side, we realized there are many approaches to doing systems neuroscience, but only a few really good ones. We decided the best neuroscience research lineages were using various flavors of self-organizing systems theory to explain complex phenomena with very simple assumptions. Moreover, there were particularly elegant theories from Atasoy, Carhart-Harris, and Friston, all doing very similar things, just on different levels (physical, computational, energetic). So we combined these theories together into Neural Annealing (Johnson 2019), a unified theory of music, meditation, psychedelics, trauma, and emotional updating:
This synthesis allowed us to start discussing not only which brain states are pleasant, but what processes are healing.
QRI.2020: We raised money, built out a full neuroimaging stack, and expanded the organization
In 2020 the QRI technical analysis pipeline became real, and we became one of the few neuroscience groups in the world able to carry out a full CSHW analysis in-house, thanks in particular to hard work by Quintin Frerichs and Patrick Taylor. This has led to partnerships with King’s College London, Imperial College London, National Institute of Mental Health of the Czech Republic, Emergent Phenomenology Research Consortium, as well as many things in the pipeline. 2020 and early 2021 also saw us onboard some fantastic talent and advisors.
III. What’s next?
We’re actively working on improving STV in three areas: