Consciousness typically lags behind the brain’s “initial electrical activation” by around 200-300ms. This implies that some higher order computation takes place to enable conscious access and to bridge the gap between brain activation and awareness. The gap is demonstrated by a range of experiments, my favorite of which is Libet’s...
It is likely that installing a shrimp stunner reduces global suffering as much as making the carts in a single Walmart less squeaky for 20 minutes a year. Or perhaps not at all. Open Philanthropy has handed $2 million to the Shrimp Welfare Project (SWP), primarily to promote electrical stunning...
My aim in this article is to examine the field of consciousness research with an analysis of 78 of the most important papers in the field. In doing so, I compare the empirical foundations these disciplines rely upon and detail how each approaches the measurement of conscious experience.
I would appreciate it you read what I wrote in my piece more carefully because youre arguing against me using points I disagree with: "And their suffering is likely to be pretty large.". I dont think that.
Also, please stop comparing yourself to a shrimp!
If I empathize with the water boiling in my kettle, and the billions of bacteria being killed in the process, should be stop boiling water? It is the source of all the energy we use. Water might suffer for all we know. There is the exact same amount of evidence for water suffering as there is for shrimp suffering. None.
The Shrimp Welfare Project is widely criticized.
Citing a single philosopher's opinion doesn't really convince me of the science. I also didn't use the neuron count as my whole argument, it was one of them and I'm happy to admit that it isn't all inclusive, which is why I made other arguments too.
There is an almost unquantifiable number of living organisms on earth, and the definition of life isn't even that clear. If you believe shrimp suffer, then the 20 minutes of their life when they are harvested being a little more unpleasant (not clear that this is even the case with stunners), doesn't represent a "terrible consequence" in my view. It makes... (read more)
Thats a fair point, I probably should!
The definition that I used isn't that important to the piece to be honest. It was a segue into my other points. I would appreciate your thoughts on the insights I presented over the semantics.
I am aware of the critiques of Libet's experiment, but the other points still stand
Consciousness typically lags behind the brain’s “initial electrical activation” by around 200-300ms. This implies that some higher order computation takes place to enable conscious access and to bridge the gap between brain activation and awareness.
The gap is demonstrated by a range of experiments, my favorite of which is Libet’s hand movement experiment, where participants were told to flick their wrist when they chose to, while watching a fast clock, and to report the timing of their decision with millisecond accuracy. While they reported the conscious urge to move around 200ms before the action, an EEG brain scan showed that the brain activity underlying the decision began half a second earlier. This shows... (read 2710 more words →)
Closer to 0% than anything else.
I could make the claim that increased entropy is suffering, and that killing anything increases entropy, so accelerating shrimp death actually increases suffering.
I would put the probability of that much higher than the probability of shrimp suffering in any morally relevant way.
Still low
I think that is a good interpretation, but it is important to consider whether they are capable of experiencing the suffering at all. I think consciousness is actually quite complicated, and I don't think shrimp meet the criteria for it.
They do show reflexes and grooming behaviours for injured antennae so there are some basic pain responses. I agree that the difference in suffering between electrocution and freezing is probably marginal at best, whichever way you go. The ice slurry also can crush and suffocate the shrimp if they survive the cold, but mostly it involves thermal shock, due to the quick change in temperature.
I first want to respond to the mention of my statement that the Shrimp Welfare Project want shrimp to suffer. I did not want to frame my piece as a direct attack on the project, and rather as an exploration of shrimp consciousness and suffering capabilities, as this aligns more with my interests. I wrote my first draft without closely reading their output, from first principles and my own research. I independently read much of the literature on shrimp brains, and have read much of what has been published in the neuroscience of consciousness over the last year. What surprised me, when I started reading the rethink priorities and SWP literature, was... (read 403 more words →)
It is likely that installing a shrimp stunner reduces global suffering as much as making the carts in a single Walmart less squeaky for 20 minutes a year. Or perhaps not at all.
Open Philanthropy has handed $2 million to the Shrimp Welfare Project (SWP), primarily to promote electrical stunning devices, and fund staff to push policy changes. Each stunner costs $70,000 to purchase and $50,000 to distribute. The goal? To "reduce suffering" when 500 million shrimp are harvested annually by cutting their death time from 20 minutes in ice slurry to 30 seconds via electrical stunning.
This initiative may sound odd at first glance but the SWP has produced numerous blog posts, elaborate... (read 1157 more words →)
My aim in this article is to examine the field of consciousness research with an analysis of 78 of the most important papers in the field. In doing so, I compare the empirical foundations these disciplines rely upon and detail how each approaches the measurement of conscious experience.
I'll write a more detailed piece in the near future, less focused on the science which no-one seems to care about and more focussed on the semantics which everyone seems to care about.