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These are all excellent points. The increase in labor productivity accruing to immigrants to e.g. the US is often discussed by economists. I'll grant that it's not often discussed in general media, which is part of PhilGoetz's point, but I'm sure I've seen it there too.

Also, many economists have argued that in certain contexts immigration (even low-skilled) does result in economic gains for the native born. The argument goes that immigrants' negative impact on native born wages is small and that this small change is more than offset by the immigrants' ability to make domestic goods cheaper. People earn less, but things cost less still. In this scenario GDP per person has gone down, but native born purchasing power has increased. And the immigrants are far better off- their labor productivity has increased through the place premium and (related) their wages are almost certainly higher than they would be in their country of origin.

A final point:is that total GDP in some contexts can actually be a good in itself. Having a country with a large GDP is very meaningful politically. The fact the Norway and Qatar have higher GDP per capita than the US is meaningful and worthy of discussion, but the US matters far more to global politics and it's due primarily to one reason- the US is responsible for one quarter of the entire world's nominal GDP. Along some margin, allowing immigration that lowers GDP per capita but raises total GDP can be beneficial to members of a country purely based on international economic strength.

When you talk about perfectly competitive markets having no profit, you're probably thinking of the term "economic profit". The sort of profit everyone usually thinks of is revenue minus cost, which is called accounting profit by economists so as to distinguish it from economic profit. Also economists are really bad at naming things. Economic profit is revenue-costs-opportunity costs.

In perfect competition, firms do make accounting profit, but they don't make economic profit.

Thanks for posting your model here and getting involved in the discussion. It's always good to be able to discuss these things publicly because I'm sure many people are learning a lot from it.

I'm bothered by it more than you are I guess. I mean, for people already involved in the rationality community maybe RationalWiki can just be seen as some silly vindictive website dressed up as a place to learn. But I feel like RationalWiki has decent pagerank and random people do get sent there in google searches. To have that site be the first or one of the first introductions a person has to a given rationality topic seems pretty destructive.

I'm glad it was discussed in the book because I'd never come across it before. So far though I find it one of the least convincing parts of the book, although I am skeptical that I am appropriately evaluating it. Would anyone be able to clarify some things for me?

How generally accepted is the orthogonality thesis? Bostrom presents it as very well accepted.

Danaher's Motivating Belief Objection is similar to an objection I had while reading about the orthogonality thesis. Mine was not as strict though. It just seemed to me that as intelligence increases new beliefs about what should be done are likely to be discovered. I don't see that these beliefs need to be "true beliefs" although as intelligence increases I guess they approach true. I also don't see that they need to be "necessarily motivating", but rather they should have some non-zero probability of being motivating. I mean, to disprove the orthogonality thesis we just have to say that as intelligence increases there's a chance that final goals change right?

I believe you are deeply incorrect about almost everything you've said in this thread regarding this subject. Can you direct me to any literature that supports anything you're saying?

Care to explain how the welfare system caused fatherless households?

Great list, but why the manosphere?

While I recognize the true HIV prevalence is probably higher than most people would guess, what propaganda are you referring to?

I agree that Eliezer maintained his calm better, but I don't believe that Wright is the simpleton you seem to be painting him to be. I've watched a lot of his videos, and I would say there are very rarely moments of "red-faced rage," and certainly none in this video. He was at times frustrated, but he really is working to understand what Eliezer is saying.