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Personally I just have the habit of reaching for specifics to begin my communication to help make things clear. This post may help.

Unlike the other animals, humans can represent any goal in a large domain like the physical universe, and then in a large fraction of cases, they can think of useful things to steer the universe toward that goal to an appreciable degree.

Some goals are more difficult than others / require giving the human control over more resources than others, and measurements of optimization power are hard to define, but this definition is taking a step toward formalizing the claim that humans are more of a "general intelligence" than animals. Presumably you agree with this claim?

It seems the crux of our disagreement factors down to a disagreement about whether this Optimization Power post by Eliezer is pointing at a sufficiently coherent concept.

I don’t get what point you’re trying to make about the takeaway of my analogy by bringing up the halting problem. There might not even be something analogous to the halting problem in my analogy of goal-completeness, but so what?

I also don’t get why you’re bringing up the detail that “single correct output” is not 100% the same thing as “single goal-specification with variable degrees of success measured on a utility function”. It’s in the nature of analogies that details are different yet we’re still able to infer an analogous conclusion on some dimension.

Humans are goal-complete, or equivalently “humans are general intelligences”, in the sense that many of us in the smartest quartile can output plans with the expectation of a much better than random score on a very broad range of utility functions over arbitrary domains.

These 4 beefs are different and less serious than the original accusations, or at least feel that way to me. Retconning a motte after the bailey is lost? That said, they're reasonable beefs for someone to have.

I’m not saying “mapping a big category to a single example is what it’s all about”. I’m saying that it’s a sanity check. Like why wouldn’t you be able to do that? Yet sometimes you can’t, and it’s cause for alarm.

Meaningful claims don't have to be specific; they just have to be able to be substantiated by a nonzero number of specific examples. Here's how I imagine this conversation:

Chris: Love your neighbor!

Liron: Can you give me an example of a time in your life where that exhortation was relevant?

Chris: Sure. People in my apartment complex like to smoke cigarettes in the courtyard and the smoke wafts up to my window. It's actually a nonsmoking complex, so I could complain to management and get them to stop, but I understand the relaxing feeling of a good smoke, so I let them be.

Liron: Ah I see, that was pretty accommodating of you.

Chris: Yeah, and I felt love in my heart for my fellow man when I did that.

Liron: Cool beans. Thanks for helping me understand what kind of scenarios you mean for your exhortation to "love your neighbor" to map to.

I agree that if a goal-complete AI steers the future very slowly, or very weakly - as by just trying every possible action one at a time - then at some point it becomes a degenerate case of the concept.

(Applying the same level of pedantry to Turing-completeness, you could similarly ask if the simple Turing machine that enumerates all possible output-tape configurations one-by-one is a UTM.)

The reason "goal-complete" (or "AGI") is a useful coinage, is that there's a large cluster in plausible-reality-space of goal-complete agents with a reasonable amount of goal-complete optimization power (e.g. humans, natural selection, and probably AI starting in a few years), and another large distinguishable cluster of non-goal-complete agents (e.g. the other animals, narrow AI).

Yeah, no doubt there are cases where people save money by having a narrower AI, just like the scenario you describe, or using ASICs for Bitcoin mining. The goal-complete AI itself would be expected to often solve problems by creating optimized problem-specific hardware.

Hmm it seems to me that you're just being pedantic about goal-completeness in a way that you aren't symmetrically being for Turing-completeness.

You could point out that "most" Turing machines output tapes full of 10^100 1s and 0s in a near-random configuration, and every computing device on earth is equally hopeless at doing that.

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