M Ls

is this emergent or just the result of mapping our social learning in extremis, obviously its both, but the dumb questions need asking

"We don’t really know what human values are"

But we might, or might begin to:  I put the effor tin over here :: Alignment ⑥ Values are an effort not a coin https://whyweshould.substack.com/p/alignment-values-are-an-effort-not

or in derived format: If all values are an effort, prices are a meeting of efforts https://whyweshould.substack.com/p/if-all-values-are-an-effort-prices

even deontological positions are an effort, evolution cares about the effort, not the ideal forms

Interesting read. On co-agency I recommended reading up on some anthropology, especially those concerned with Homo sp. as a social learning species. Our powers come from copy-catting, and maintaining a world in which that is supported by various and any means. Including social institutions of the individual and the group. While the first cyborg was any animal who picked up a lump of something as a tool, the first Homo taught their children quite deliberately in a safe place.

The distinction between auto and actuated highlights this, (as does slavery as fles... (read more)

The first realisation here moving forward, is that religion is a subset of something else… —and not a thing-in-itself that needs to be explained /selected for. This something else is the inchoate urge "to should", "to world the self with a self in the world among others". I realised this ten years ago, https://www.academia.edu/40978261/Why_we_should_an_introduction_by_memoir_into_the_implications_of_the_Egalitarian_Revolution_of_the_Paleolithic_or_Anyone_for_cake

and write on it at my substack https://whyweshould.substack.com/

any commonalties are the result... (read more)

Like in an examination for most of us. That's why we fail in the time allowed.

[All logic is a prior.]

The anthropologist Mary Douglas covers this meta-view you have more naively described with some great biographical gaming history.

Mary Douglas argues for cultural/personal choices in which perceptions of risk (to nature, to society) inform frameworks of action/agency. I would also argue that these choices when iterated in both economic messaging (charity/consumption/display) and in conversational argument (meetings/meals/water-cooler/parliament) create the world as we know it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Douglas

I came to her th... (read more)

People who count do not understand their power. Except Sesame Steet's 'The Count', and then he discovers crypto and it all turns to paranoid mush.

I really enjoyed reading this palmistry.

Reading you on Buber : Buber seems to mistake dissolution as a soteriological goal, which it could be I guess. but is not a required goal in very many buddhisms. I would consider doubling-down on this mistake a bit of slur.  Dissolution might be an acceptable outcome as an insight, but this does not preclude engagement as a pathway to enlightenment.

I say this as a fellow traveller with neo-Pyrrhonism, but who does not have a soteriological bone in my body.

Encounter is the thing of course. https://whyweshould.substack.com/p/if-the-world-is-a-thing-we-have-made

Good fable. If we swap out the diamond macguffin for logic itself, it's a whole new level of Gödelian pain, can weak bias priors iterations catch this out? Some argue analogue intuitions live through these formal paradox gardens this but my own intuition doubts this... maybe my intuition is too formal, who knows?

Also some "intuitions" are heavily resisted to forgetting about the diamond because they want it badly, and then their measures used to collect data often interfere with the sense of the world and thus reality. I suspect "general intelligence" and ... (read more)

back link https://whyweshould.substack.com/p/all-logic-is-a-prior

All logic is a prior.

Moss, Jessica, and Whitney Schwab. “The Birth of Belief.” Journal of the History of Philosophy 57, no. 1 (2019): 1–32. https://doi.org/10.1353/hph.2019.0000.
 

That covers the ancient invention of what we later in English call 'belief'. Belief/believing as an English world was used by Latin speaker Christians to explain it to warrior culture elites who wanted to be Roman empire too dude. It meant to 'hold dear'. Use of it (particularly by analytic philosphy streams centuries later ignoring it origins) to mean 'proposition that' is a subset in a long his... (read more)

iterate, repeat, revise

I agree with RogerDearnaley "Briefly, humans are not aligned," to some percentage I am too afraid to put a number on. 

My comments are not directed in general terms about humans, but about particular free-riders known as narcissists and psychopaths, who do a greater proportion of what are regarded as examples of bad behaviour. And how we deal / fail to deal with.

Narcissists and psychopaths cannot align with anything, they just take advantage or take cover from such possibilities. Considering a lot of our values are in fact directed at dealing with this... (read more)

There is a difference between theory-of-mind and empathy. We can should either of them into our worlding structures: morality/religion/art/law/lore/fiction. One's gets shoulded as legalistic and divisive  balancing acts, focusing on culpability and blame, and the hindsight of logic, and the other... there-is-a-gap… ---to where responsibility blurs (all) this into credit we can mirror-neuron our way into empathy and thinking of the children, everyone as children. Moral agency is more than Kant in good form, and is more about bettering than the good. About bettering that which does not exist. The world.

Fantastic. Good examples of why Kant failed. Or rather, why evolution and Kant don't really get it on. Kant's universalising is an outcome of the moral worlding worldbuilding urge, which arises in evolution, not from ideals and their desperate ontologies. Thanks https://unstableontology.com/about/

Took me some 20+ years to come up with "why we should". 

 I agree with the other comments here suggesting that working hard enough on an animals' language patterns in LLMs will develop models of the animals' worlds based on that language use, and so develop better contexted answers in these reading comprehension questions. With no direct experience of the world.

 The SVG stuff  is an excellent example of there being available explicit short cuts in the data set. Much of that language use by humans and their embodied world/worldview/worldmaking is is not that explicit. To arrive at that tacit knowle... (read more)

Comment one: Paternalism, besides fulfilling desires for you, tells you what your desires are. Its nurturing, but not in a nurturing way. Authoritarianism doesn't bother doing any of that, your agency/making is a problem, a threat, because it exists. It is a uni-world in structure much like a narcissists psychopath's view of themselves where self=world, and both these de-nurturing parasites survive and co-evolve with us, where we support and acquiesce by de-agenting ourselves as only agents can. The self/world is a ratio of sorts, of partials ranked and in... (read more)

we need to get better at policing narcissism and psychopathy, arguing about anything else is a distraction