Signer

Posts

Sorted by New

Comments

Grokking illusionism

Hmm, I'm not actually sure about quantifying ratio of crazy/predictive intuitions (especially in case of generalizing to include perception) to arrive at low prior for intuitions. The way I see it, if everyone had an interactive map of Haiti in the corner of their vision, we should try to understand how it works and find what it corresponds to in reality - not immediately dismiss it. Hence the question about specific illusionary parts of consciousness.

Anyway, I thing the intuition about consciousness does correspond to a part of reality - to "reality" part. I.e. panpsychism is true and zombie thought experiment illustrates difference between real world and the world that does not exist. It doesn't involve additional primitives, because physical theories already include reality, and it diverges from intuition about consciousness in unsurprising parts (like intuition being too anthropocentric).

Grokking illusionism

I appreciate the difference between absolute certainty and allowing the possibility of error, but as a matter of terminology, "illusion" is usually used to refer to things that are wrong, not merely may be wrong. Words doesn't matter that much, of course, but I still interested in what intuitions about consciousness you consider to probably not correspond to reality at all? For example, what do you do with intuition underlying zombie argument:

  1. Would you say the statement "we live in non-zombie world" is true?
  2. Or the entire setup is contradictory because consciousness is a label for some arbitrary structure/algorithm and it was specified that structures match for both worlds?
  3. Or do you completely throw away the intuition about consciousness as not useful?

From what you said I guess it's 2 (which by the way implies that whether you/you from yesterday/LUT-you/dust-theoretic copies of you/dogs feel pain is a matter of preferences), so the next question is what evidence is there for the conclusion that the intuition about consciousness can't map to anything other than algorithm in the brain? It can't map to something magical but what if there is some part of reality that this intuition corresponds to?

Grokking illusionism

feelings didn’t necessarily map to reality, no matter how real they felt

But they do map to reality, just not perfectly. "I see red stripe" approximately maps to some brain activity. Sure, feelings about them being different things may be wrong, but "illusionism about everything except physicalism" is just restating physicalism without any additional argument. So what feelings are you illusionistic about?

Grokking illusionism

People have various intuitions about phenomenal consciousness

People say that, but are there actual studies of expressed intuitions about consciousness?

Ethics in Many Worlds

The main reason is the double-slit experiment: if you start with a notion of reality that expects photon to travel through either one or the other slit, and then the nature is like ~_~, it is already a sufficient reason to rethink reality. Different parts of probability distribution don't influence each other.

What happens if we experimentally discover a deeper layer of physics beneath QM

I mean, there is no need for hypotheticals - it's not like we started with probabilistic reality - we started with gods. And then everyone already changed their notion of reality to the probabilistic one in response to QM. Point is, changing one's ontology may not be easy, but if you prohibit continuous change then the Spirit of the Forest welcomes you. So yes, if we discover new better physics and it doesn't include interference between worlds, then sure, we dodged this bullet. But until then I see no reason to not assume MWI without special status for any measure. We don't even lose any observations that way - we just now know what it meant to observer something.

Ethics in Many Worlds

It has some notion - that notion is just not classical and not fundamental. What happens when you study the results of any experiments or make predictions is described by the theory. It just doesn't describe it in classical or probabilistic terms because they are not real. And doesn't tell you how to maximize knowledge, because it's ambiguous without specifying how to aggregate knowledge in different branches.

Ethics in Many Worlds

I'm saying that the classical notions of prediction, knowledge, observations and the need to explain them in classical sense should not be fundamental part of the theory with MWI. It is a plain consequence of QM equations that amplitudes of the branches, where frequency of repeated experiments contradicts Born rule, tends to zero. Theory just doesn't tell us why Born probabilities are right for specific observables in absolute sense, because there are no probabilities or sampling on physical level and wavefunction containing all worlds continues to evolve as it did before. We can label "amplitudes of the branches, where x is wrong, tend to zero" situation as "we observe x", but it would be arbitrary ethical decision. The Hilbert measure is correct only if you want to sum over branches, but there is nothing in the physics that forces you to want anything.

Ethics in Many Worlds

correct predictions

"Correct" only in the sense that the measure of branches where it's not correct approaches zero. So only matters if you already value such a measure.

Multiple Worlds, One Universal Wave Function

Any actual application of QM still requires the Copenhagen approach.

You can derive practical usefulness of Copenhagen approach from MWI without postulating reality of observables.

I never actually heard any coherent arguments in favor of reality of observables. If we giving up on minimizing complexity, why not go all the way to the original intuitions and say that Spirit of the Forest shows you the world consistent with QM calculations?

And to avoid misunderstanding: MWI means wavefunction is real, but worlds and Born rule are just arbitrary approximation.

Why I Prefer the Copenhagen Interpretation(s)

It sounds useful but I don't see any reason to include the way I treat anything into ontology. That wavefunction is nearly zero in all regions where Born statistics fails is just consequence, not postulate. Similarly you can derive that following Bayes rule will result in largest amount of spicemeasure for states where you know something. Whether you want this or not is purely ethical question and ethics today is as arbitrary as it was yesterday. You might as well only track uncertainty about wavefunction and not specific decoherence-path and decide to minimize worst ignorance or something.

You would need a postulate only if you want there to be some fundamental point-knowledge but there are no point-states in reality - everything is just amplitudes.

Load More