timeholmes
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I long to hear a discussion of the overarching issues of the prospects of AI as seen from the widest perspective. Much as the details covered in this discussion are fascinating and compelling, it also deserves an approach from the perspective not only of the future of this civilization and humanity at large, but of our relationship with the rest of nature and the cosmos. ASI would essentially trump earthly "nature" as we know it (through evolution, geo-engineering, nanotech, etc., though certainly not the laws of nature). Thereby will be raised all kinds of new problems that have yet to occur to us in this slice of time.
I think It would... (read more)
Human beings suffer from a tragic myopic thinking that gets us into regular serious trouble. Fortunately our mistakes so far have so far don't quite threaten our species (though we're wiping out plenty of others.) Usually we learn by hindsight rather than robust imaginative caution; we don't learn how to fix a weakness until it's exposed in some catastrophe. Our history by itself indicates that we won't get AI right until it's too late, although many of us will congratulate ourselves that THEN we see exactly where we went wrong. But with AI we only get one chance.
My own fear is that the crucial factor we miss will not be some item... (read more)
Very helpful! Thank you, Katja, for your moderation and insights. I will be returning often to reread portions and follow links to more. I hope there will be more similar opportunities in the future!
I'm very concerned with the risk, which I feel is at the top of catastrophic risks to humanity. With an approaching asteroid at least we know what to watch for! As an artist, I've been working mostly on this for the last 3 years, (see my TED talk "The Erotic Crisis", on YouTube) trying to think of ways of raise awareness and engage people in dialog. The more discussion the better I feel! And I'm very grateful for this forum and all who participated!
Because what any human wants is a moving target. As soon as someone else delivers exactly what you ask for, you will be disappointed unless you suddenly stop changing. Think of the dilemma of eating something you know you shouldn't. Whatever you decide, as soon as anyone (AI or human) takes away your freedom to change your mind, you will likely rebel furiously. Human freedom is a huge value that any FAI of any description will be unable to deliver until we are no longer free agents.
The most important issue comes down to the central question of human life: what is a life worth living? To me this is an inescapably individual question the answer to which changes moment by moment in a richly diverse world. To assume there is a single answer to "moral rightness" is to assume a frozen moment in an ever-evolving universe from the perspective of a single sentient person! We struggle even for ourselves from one instant to the next to determine what is right for this particular moment! Even reducing world events to an innocuous question like a choice between coffee and tea would foment an endless struggle to determine what is... (read more)
This is Yudkowsky's Hidden Complexity of Wishes problem from the human perspective. The concept of "caring" is rooted so deeply (in our flesh, I insist) that we cannot express it. Getting across the idea to AI that you care about your mother is not the same as asking for an outcome. This is why the problem is so hard. How would you convince the AI, in your first example, that your care was real? Or in your #2, that your wish was different from what it delivered? And how do you tell, you ask? By being disappointed in the result! (For instance in Yudkowsky's example, when the AI delivers Mom out of the burning building as you requested, but in pieces.)
My point is that value is not a matter of cognition of the brain, but caring from the heart. When AI calls your insistence that it didn't deliver what you wanted "prejudice", I don't think you'd be happy with the above defense.
[Ref: http://lesswrong.com/lw/ld/the_hidden_complexity_of_wishes/]
What Davis points out needs lots of expansion. The value problem becomes ever more labyrinthine the closer one looks. For instance, after millions of years of evolution and all human history, we ourselves still can't agree on what we want! Even within 5 minutes of your day your soul is aswirl with conflicts over balancing just the values that pertain to your own tiny life, let alone the fate of the species. Any attempt to infuse values into AI will reflect human conflicts but at a much simpler and more powerful scale.
Furthermore, the AI will figure out that humans override their better natures at a whim, agreeing universally on the evil of... (read more)
The older I get and the more I think of the AI issues the more I realize how perfectly our universe is designed! I think about the process of growing up: I cherish the time I spent in each stage of life, unaware of what's to come later, because there are things to be learned that can only derive from that particular segment's challenges. Each stage has its own level of "foolishness", but that is absolutely necessary for those lessons to be learned! So too I think of the catastrophes I have endured that I would not have chosen, but that I would not trade for anything now due to the wisdom... (read more)
There is no doubt that given the concept of the Common Good Principle, everyone would be FOR it prior to complete development of ASI. But once any party gains an advantage they are not likely to share, particularly with those they see as their competitors or enemies. This is an unfortunate fact of human nature that has little chance of evolving toward greater altruism in the necessary timescale. In both Bostrom's and Brundage's arguments there are a lot of "ifs". Yes, it would be great if we could develop AI for the Greater Good, but human nature seems to indicate that our only hope of doing so would be through an early and inextricably intertwined collaboration, so that no party would have the capability of seizing the golden ring of domination by cheating during development.