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If I imagine that I am immune to advertising, what am I probably missing?

by SpectrumDT
4th Sep 2025
1 min read
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RationalityWorld Modeling
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If I imagine that I am immune to advertising, what am I probably missing?
15johnswentworth
8SpectrumDT
2Richard Korzekwa
10RamblinDash
3the gears to ascension
1Ben Livengood
6ACCount
6rahulxyz
3James Diacoumis
2Seth Herd
1exmateriae
8the gears to ascension
2localdeity
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johnswentworth

Sep 04, 2025

150

A few parts:

  • Ads create common knowledge (as RamblinDash's answer points out)
  • Creation of common knowledge is the main bottleneck to creating or moving Schelling points
  • Most social symbols/signals of group identity or role identity are Schelling points

As an example, let's consider an oversimplified scenario with two social identities: the MBA types, and the artsy counterculture types. The MBA types want to signal that they're MBA types, definitely not artsy counterculture types. The artsy counterculture types want to signal they're artsy counterculture types, not MBA types. So this is a pure cooperative game: everyone wants clear signals, and everyone is incentivized to use those signals honestly.

But that still leaves a degree of freedom in which symbols signal which group membership. In our world, converse hightops signal artsy counterculture, while MBA types debate the relative merits of oxfords vs brogues. But one could easily (and somewhat amusingly) imagine a different world in which the middle managers wear hightops, and the artsy types debate oxfords vs brogues. The choice of which symbols signal which things is a Schelling problem: everyone wants to coordinate on the choice of symbolic meaning.

Now enter the Converse marketing team. The main thing they care about is that their brand have some strong group identity signal, so that there's some group of people who will buy their overpriced sneakers. Early on, their customer base accidentally happens to have relatively few MBA types, so they lean into that and launch a marketing campaign to establish common knowledge that converse hightops signal artsy counterculture. Their product becomes a profitable part of the symbolic meaning Schelling point.

Notably: at this point, the association between converse hightops and artsy counterculture group membership becomes a real feature of the world; converse hightops have real predictive power about the social behavior of people who wear them (and their friends). The ads aren't just manipulating people into buying the product; the ads helped to create a real predictive feature in the environment. So it would be epistemically suboptimal to be "immune to" the outputs of the advertising.

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[-]SpectrumDT1d80

Thanks for the explanation!

So it would be epistemically suboptimal to be "immune to" the outputs of the advertising.

I get that you are saying that ads convey useful information. It seems to me, though, that instead of relying on ads for this information, I could get the same information just as easily by observing people. 

Are there any particular situations where it is especially useful to pay attention to ads for this kind of group signalling information?

(I gather that hightops and brogues are types of shoes. I had to look them up...)

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2Richard Korzekwa19h
It is sometimes good to avoid coming across as really weird or culturally out of touch, and ads can give you some signal on what's normal and culturally relevant right now. If you're picking up drinks for a 4th of July party, Bud Light will be very culturally on-brand, Corona would be fine, but a bit less on-brand, and mulled wine would be kinda weird. And I think you can pick this sort of thing up from advertising. Also, it might be helpful to know roughly what group membership you or other people might be signalling by using a particular product. For example, I drive a Subaru. Subaru has, for a long time, marketed to (what appears to me to be) people who are a bit younger, vote democrat, and spend time in the mountains. This is in contrast to, say, Ram trucks, which are marketed to (what looks to me like) people who vote Republican. If I'm in a context where people who don't know me very well see my car, I am now aware that they might be biased toward thinking I vote democrat or spend time outdoors. (FWIW, I did a low-effort search for which states have the strongest Subaru sales and it is indeed states with mountains and states with people who vote democrat).

RamblinDash

Sep 04, 2025

101

One thing you might be missing, and the reason that widely-viewed events are so valuable as ad space, is that one function of ads can be to create common knowledge among the audience of how other people might see the product.

For example, Corona beer has a beach vibe. They don't just want you to know that it has a beach vibe, they want you to know that other people know that it has a beach vibe. That way, if you are going to a party and want to bring something that has a beach vibe, you'll reach for Corona because you want to be seen by others as bringing the beach vibe. This is why ads on widely-viewed broadcasts like sports games disproportionately (tho not exclusively) focus on products that are consumed socially or in public rather than privately.

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[-]the gears to ascension2d*30

isn't corona a virus? I wouldn't drink a virus personally. sounds dangerous /j

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[-]Ben Livengood2d10

I didn't know Corona had a beach vibe, but I have seen a number of Corona ads.  Does this mean advertising doesn't have much effect on me (beyond name-brand recognition)?  I think I associate Corona more with tacos than anything else.

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ACCount

Sep 05, 2025

64

Ads are not just about "manipulate people into buying something they wouldn't normally want". Ads are also about "informing people about something they would want, if they only knew that it exist", which is the most benign form of advertisement. 

And, critically, ads are about building brand familiarity. Which is the easy-to-overlook aspect I'm going to focus on.

Imagine if you wanted a soft carbonated drink, and the three options at the nearest shop were: Oh Cola Soda, Coca-Cola and Penny's Purple Drink. The price difference is, to you, negligible. You're only willing to spend up to 5 seconds on the buying decision. With that, which one would you buy?

It's probably Coca-Cola. You are familiar with Coca-Cola, it's a known quantity, and you don't hate the taste. The rest of the shelf looks like some strange off-brand drinks you've never heard of - which makes buying them a gamble. And why do you find yourself in a world where you're more familiar with Coca-Cola than with the other two? Because someone spent literal billions a year on advertisement to make sure that anyone in the US, young or old, knows that Coca-Cola is a thing.

By spending money on ads, the Coca-Cola Company created the familiarity - which then served as a little nudge in millions of little buying decisions that happen all across the country. Millions of people would try Coca-Cola before they try any other soda. And millions of people who try Coca-Cola would like it enough to prefer it slightly over "unknown unfamiliar soda" for the rest of their lives. Which makes it all worth it.

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rahulxyz

Sep 05, 2025

60

This post here might change your perspective on the purpose of advertising 

https://meltingasphalt.com/ads-dont-work-that-way/

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James Diacoumis

Sep 04, 2025

30

The idea that advertising needs to be strongly persuasive to work is a deeply embedded myth based on a misunderstanding of consumer dynamics. It instead works as a kind of ‘nudge’ for consumers in a particular direction.

In practice, most consumers are not 100% loyal to a particular brand so they don’t need to be strongly persuaded to move to a different brand. They typically have a repertoire of safe products that they’re cycling through based on which price promotions are available that week etc.. the goal is to ‘nudge’ them to buy your product somewhat more often within that repertoire, reinforce your products place in the repertoire and potentially get customers to trial it in their repertoire. 

See the paper here and the relevant quote which puts it much more eloquently than I can:

There is instead scope for advertising to 

(1) reinforce your brand's customers' existing propensities to buy it as one of several, 

(2) 'nudge' them to perhaps buy it somewhat more often, and 

(3) get other consumers perhaps to add your brand as an extra or substitute brand to their existing brand repertoire (first usually on a 'trial' basis - 'I might try that' - rather than already strongly convinced or converted)

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Seth Herd

Sep 06, 2025

20

I think the mere familiarity effect is a big part of what you're missing. For some reason, the way the brain works makes us like things we know. If someone walks into a store and looks at two brands, and they have seen one but not the other somewhere but don't remember where, they will reliably and noticeably prefer the brand they have heard of. The other answers are good too.

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exmateriae

Sep 04, 2025

10

The fact that they would not even know the brand or sometimes the product type without the ads? Same goes for not forgetting it : Coca does not need ads to sell but I would believe that long term it would be a bad strategy.

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[-]the gears to ascension2d85

Is it good to be completely immune to advertising? Sometimes I'll have used a product or service and then see an ad for it and have a strong urge to stop using the thing, because for me part of how I achieve ad resistance is active: I look for what reactions could possibly be valuable for the advertiser and try to have the opposite. Seeing an ad for something usually gets it banlisted for me, and when it does look worth looking into further, I'll try to buy from a competitor first. But even with all that filtering sometimes an ad is how I first hear of something that is actually relevant to my interests and passes quality tests.

(My main approach is no zuck websites and ublock origin, though.)

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[-]localdeity2d20

I think "completely immune to advertising" would mean it has no effect on your behavior either way.  This sounds like advertising has an anti-effect.  Which, you know, can be a good thing for game theory purposes.  But it is a different thing.

Semi-related:

Particularly deplorable are the struggles of these children against dull or otherwise unworthy adults in authority. The very gifted child or adolescent, perceiving the illogical conduct of those in charge of his affairs, may turn rebellious against all authority and fall into a condition of negative suggestibility—a most unfortunate trend of personality, since the person is then unable to take a coöperative attitude toward authority.

A person who is highly suggestible in a negative direction is as much in bondage to others around him as is the person who is positively suggestible. The social value of the person is seriously impaired in either case. The gifted are not likely to fall victims to positive suggestion but many of them develop negativism to a conspicuous degree.

The highly intelligent child will be intellectually capable of self-determination, and his greatest value to society can be realized only if he is truly self-possessed and detached from the influences of both positive and negative suggestion. The more intelligent the child, the truer this statement is. It is especially unfortunate, therefore, that so many gifted children have in authority over them persons of no special fitness for the task, who cannot gain or keep the respect of these good thinkers. Such unworthy guardians arouse, by the process of "redintegration," contempt for authority wherever it is found, and the inability to yield gracefully to command.

Thus some gifted persons, mishandled in youth, become contentious, aggressive, and stubborn to an extent which renders them difficult and disagreeable in all human relationships involving subordination. Since subordination must precede posts of command in the ordinary course of life, this is an unfortunate trend of personality. Cynicism and negativism are likely to interfere seriously with a life career. Happily, gifted children are typically endowed with a keen sense of humor, and are apparently able to mature beyond cynicism eventually in a majority of cases.

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I tend to tell myself that I am not affected by advertising. But I suspect that most people think that. So I ask myself: What am I not seeing?

I have heard that many ads are designed to sell you a "lifestyle". I do not care about lifestyle, and I care relatively little about social status.

I do occasionally buy something after seeing an ad - usually when it something obviously useful to me. (For example, I bought "The Level Up", a physical platform for board games, after seeing an ad for the Kickstarter campaign.) But I can find no examples where it seems like I was manipulated into buying something I had no good reason to want.

Does anyone have experience with this? When someone says "I don't let ads manipulate me", what are they probably missing?