Open Thread: June 2009

Cyan

I provide our monthly place to discuss Less Wrong topics that have not appeared in recent posts. Work your brain and gain prestige by doing so in E-prime (or not, as you please).

Thank you, this sounds like very good advice for how to lead someone down the path.

But given that she is reluctant to go down the path, do I want to lead her down it? She already believes that I can defend my views better than she can her's. She probably even believes that my views are closer to the truth.

My guess is that she is reluctant to discuss and evaluate the fundamental facts of existence and our values, precisely because she cherishes certain aspects of her current worldview that she correctly believes she is likely to lose. I think its plausible that she'll end up less happy, and maybe less productive, after hearing about the preference utilitarianism and the opportunity cost of spending $80 to have flowers delivered to a friend (note: I'd never try to stop her from doing it, I'd just like to explain why I'm not going to) or after explaining why the idea that people have souls is incoherent (note: I would never say something that strongly. As you suggest I'd want to build up to it slowly, by asking questions and letting the conclusions fall out of the discussion.)

Religious people report being happier. By many measures they also do more "good works." I wouldn't be surprised if the same were true of deontologists vs. consequentialists.

Do I really have reason to believe she'll benefit from serious detailed discussion of our respective worldviews?

In my case, it was worth it. There may be a stubborn reluctance to "give in" or other lower level things that get in the way of believing the truth, but if at the top level she would really rather believe the truth, you're probably fine. If you can't get her to say in full honesty "I would rather believe the truth than made up 'feel good' stories", you're probably hosed.

My girlfriend started out as a creationist christian and is now pretty much atheist. Overall, she is much more reasonable and can make the right decision on the types of... (read more)

4Apprentice17y

I'd be curious to know what sort of power dynamic you have. My spouse believes I am more rational and intelligent than s/he is - but s/he's still the one who makes the decisions. I advise - my spouse decides. We both like it that way and we've had a successful and happy relationship for more than a decade. Now that I think about it, this is reminiscent of Eliezer's "Three Worlds Collide". You want to keep the rationalist cultists around - but you don't want them in charge :p

3Annoyance17y

It's impossible to make someone reason if they don't wish to. It's impossible to force someone to acknowledge the truth if they don't want to acknowledge it. You don't need to lead her down any path, even if she were willing to follow. She probably already knows what the rational approach is and doesn't choose to implement it. In the event that she doesn't, teach her the method of rationality - not just the result - if she comes to you for help. Don't, otherwise. If she's comfortable with letting you be reasonable, and you're comfortable with letting her have her magical thinking, I'd say everything is fine.