I think it is worthwhile to balance out the links you have included in your comment with the following, which refer to discussions and analyses (listed in no particular order) that have been posted on LessWrong and which cast very significant doubt on both the theoretical soundness and the practical viability of CEV:
I am no doubt missing a ton of links and references to other posts and comments that have made similar or related points over the years. Sadly, I don't quite have the energy to look for more than what I've amassed here. In any case, I, myself, have made similar points before, such as in explaining why I agreed with Seth Herd that instruction-following AGI was far more likely than value-aligned AGI (while making the stronger claim that "I consider the concept of a value aligned AGI to be confused and ultimately incoherent"). I also wrote a rather long and comprehensive comment to Wei Dai expressing my philosophical concerns and confusions about these issues:
Whenever I see discourse about the values or preferences of beings embedded in a physical universe that goes beyond the boundaries of the domains (namely, low-specificity conversations dominated by intuition) in which such ultimately fake frameworks function reasonably well, I get nervous and confused. I get particularly nervous if the people participating in the discussions are not themselves confused about these matters (I am not referring to you in particular here, since you have already signaled an appropriate level of confusion about this). Such conversations stretch our intuitive notions past their breaking point by trying to generalize them out of distribution without the appropriate level of rigor and care.
What counts as human "preferences"? Are these utility function-like orderings of future world states, or are they ultimately about universe-histories, or maybe a combination of those, or maybe something else entirely? Do we actually have any good reason to think that (some form of) utility maximization explains real-world behavior, or are the conclusions broadly converged upon on LW ultimately a result of intuitions about what powerful cognition must be like whose source is a set of coherence arguments that do not stretch as far as they were purported to? What do we do with the fact that humans don't seem to have utility functions and yet lingering confusion about this remained as a result of many incorrect and misleading statements by influential members of the community?
How can we use such large sample spaces when it becomes impossible for limited beings like humans or even AGI to differentiate between those outcomes and their associated events? After all, while we might want an AI to push the world towards a desirable state instead of just misleading us into thinking it has done so, how is it possible for humans (or any other cognitively limited agents) to assign a different value, and thus a different preference ranking, to outcomes that they (even in theory) cannot differentiate (either on the basis of sense data or through thought)?
In any case, are they indexical or not? If we are supposed to think about preferences in terms of revealed preferences only, what does this mean in a universe (or an Everett branch, if you subscribe to that particular interpretation of QM) that is deterministic? Aren't preferences thought of as being about possible worlds, so they would fundamentally need to be parts of the map as opposed to the actual territory, meaning we would need some canonical framework of translating the incoherent and yet supposedly very complex and multidimensional set of human desires into something that actually corresponds to reality? What additional structure must be grafted upon the empirically-observable behaviors in order for "what the human actually wants" to be well-defined?
On the topic of agency, what exactly does that refer to in the real world? Do we not "first need a clean intuitively-correct mathematical operationalization of what "powerful agent" even means"? Are humans even agents, and if not, what exactly are we supposed to get out of approaches that are ultimately all about agency? How do we actually get from atoms to agents? (note that the posts in that eponymous sequence do not even come close to answering this question) More specifically, is a real-world being actually the same as the abstract computation its mind embodies? Rejections of souls and dualism, alongside arguments for physicalism, do not prove the computationalist thesis to be correct, as physicalism-without-computationalism is not only possible but also (as the very name implies) a priori far more faithful to the standard physicalist worldview.
What do we mean by morality as fixed computation in the context of human beings who are decidedly not fixed and whose moral development through time is almost certainly so path-dependent (through sensitivity to butterfly effects and order dependence) that a concept like "CEV" probably doesn't make sense? The feedback loops implicit in the structure of the brain cause reward and punishment signals to "release chemicals that induce the brain to rearrange itself" in a manner closely analogous to and clearly reminiscent of a continuous and (until death) never-ending micro-scale brain surgery. To be sure, barring serious brain trauma, these are typically small-scale changes, but they nevertheless fundamentally modify the connections in the brain and thus the computation it would produce in something like an emulated state (as a straightforward corollary, how would an em that does not "update" its brain chemistry the same way that a biological being does be "human" in any decision-relevant way?). We can think about a continuous personal identity through the lens of mutual information about memories, personalities etc, but our current understanding of these topics is vastly incomplete and inadequate, and in any case the naive (yet very widespread, even on LW) interpretation of "the utility function is not up for grabs" as meaning that terminal values cannot be changed (or even make sense as a coherent concept) seems totally wrong.
The way communities make progress on philosophical matters is by assuming that certain answers are correct and then moving on. After all, you can't ever get to the higher levels that require a solid foundation if you aren't allowed to build such a foundation in the first place. But I worry, for reasons that have been stated before, that the vast majority of the discourse by "lay lesswrongers" (and, frankly, even far more experienced members of the community working directly on alignment research; as a sample illustration, see a foundational report's failure to internalize the lesson of "Reward is not the optimization target") is based on conclusions reached through informal and non-rigorous intuitions that lack the feedback loops necessary to ground themselves to reality because they do not do enough "homework problems" to dispel misconceptions and lingering confusions about complex and counterintuitive matters.
I think the fact that CEV-like ideas are still prevalent in this community (as inferred from posts like OP's) means it would probably be worthwhile for someone (maybe me, if I have the time or energy at some point in the near-term future) to collect all of these ideas and references into one top-level post that conclusively makes the argument for why CEV doesn't make sense and won't work (beyond the mere practical detail of "we won't get to implement it in these inscrutable floating-point vectors making up modern state-of-the-art ML systems") and why continuing to think about it as if it did causes confusions and incorrect thinking more than it dissolves questions and creates knowledge.
Yoshua Bengio writes[1]:
I think I do[2]. I believe that the difficulties of alignment arise from trying to control something that can manipulate you. And I think you shouldn't try.
Suppose you have a good ML algorithm (Not the stuff we have today that needs 1000x more data than humans), and you train it as a LM.
There is a way to turn a (very good) LM into a goal-driven chatbot via prompt engineering alone, which I'll assume the readers can figure out. You give it a goal "Do what (pre-ASI) X, having considered this carefully for a while, would have wanted you to do".
Whoever builds this AGI will choose what X will be[3]. If it's a private project with investors, they'll probably have a say, as an incentive to invest.
Note that the goal is in plain natural language, not a product of rewards and punishments. And it doesn't say "Do what X wants you to do now".
Suppose this AI becomes superhuman. Its understanding of languages will also be perfect. The smarter it becomes, the better it will understand the intended meaning.
Will it turn everyone into paperclips? I don't think so. That's not what (pre-ASI) X would have wanted, presumably, and the ASI will be smart enough to figure this one out.
Will it manipulate its creators into giving it rewards? No. There are no "rewards".
Will it starve everyone, while obeying all laws and accumulating wealth? Not what I, or any reasonable human, would have wanted.
Will it resist being turned off? Maybe. Depends on whether it thinks that this is what (pre-ASI) X would have wanted it to.
https://yoshuabengio.org/2024/07/09/reasoning-through-arguments-against-taking-ai-safety-seriously/
I'm not familiar with the ASI alignment literature, but presumably he is. I googled "would have wanted" + "alignment" on this site, and this didn't seem to turn up much. If this has already been proposed, please let me know in the comments.
Personally, I'd probably want to hedge against my own (expected) fallibility a bit, and include more people that I respect. But this post is just about aligning the AGI with its creators.