Sen. Bernie Sanders

Thank you all for being here. The Congresswoman and I are going to be chatting about an enormously important issue. Let me start off by saying that in my view, and in the view of people who know a lot more about this issue than I do, we are at the beginning of the most profound technological revolution in world history — a revolution that will bring unimaginable changes to our society in a relatively short period of time.

Artificial intelligence and robotics will impact our economy, our democracy, our privacy rights, our emotional well-being, our environment, and even our very survival as human beings on this planet. The scale, scope, and speed of this transformation will be unprecedented.

According to Demis Hassabis, who is the head of Google DeepMind, the AI revolution will be ten times bigger than the industrial revolution and ten times faster — meaning AI and robotics will have a hundred times the impact of what the industrial revolution did.

And it's not just what AI companies are saying, it's what they are doing. This year alone, four major AI companies are expected to spend roughly $670 billion building data centers, and tens of billions more on research and development.

Despite the extraordinary importance of this issue and its impact on every man, woman, and child in this country, AI has received far too little serious discussion here in our nation's capital. I fear that Congress is totally unprepared for the magnitude of the changes that are already taking place.

While Congress has not paid enough attention to this issue, the American people have. According to a recent poll, 79% of voters are concerned that the government does not have a plan to protect workers from AI job losses. That same poll also found that 56% of voters are concerned about losing their job — or having someone in their family lose their job — in the next year. Not in the next ten years. In the next year.

Why are the American people so concerned? They have a lot of reasons to be. They understand that at a time of massive income and wealth inequality — when the billionaire class has never had it so good — some 60% of our people are living paycheck to paycheck.

And the American people understand that the AI revolution, these massive investments, are being driven by some of the wealthiest people in our country and the world — people like Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, and Larry Ellison. They understand that these billionaires are investing huge amounts of money into AI and robotics not to improve life for working families, but to dramatically increase their own wealth and power. Do you think the average American is sitting around trusting that the multi-billionaires are going to transform society for the good of ordinary people? I don't think so.

In terms of the impact that AI and robotics will have on working people, let us listen to what the tech oligarchs themselves are saying. Not the Congresswoman, not me. Let's hear what the tech oligarchs are themselves saying. Elon Musk, who has made massive investments in AI and robotics, has stated — and I quote:

"AI and robots will replace all jobs."

Replace all jobs. Bill Gates has said humans "won't be needed for most things." And a settlement at Microsoft predicts that most white-collar work could be automated within the next decade.

What we are talking about, therefore, is the possibility that AI and automation could displace tens of millions of workers in the United States from their current employment. We have already seen early signs of this transformation with declining employment in AI-exposed occupations and growing difficulty for young people entering the workforce.

If machines can perform most economically valuable work better than humans — and that is the goal, that machines will be able to do the job you are doing better than you are doing it — if that happens, pretty simple question: What happens to the workers? How do people earn a living? How do they support their families? And how do programs like Social Security and Medicare survive without a stable tax base? People are not working, they're not paying taxes.

And let me ask a very simple question that is on the minds of millions of Americans: How will workers who lose their jobs find new employment if there are no jobs available? What happens to the over 6 million truck drivers, cab drivers, rideshare drivers, and bus drivers if virtually all transportation is conducted through driverless vehicles — which, under present trends, seems likely to happen? What happens to the young college graduates who today go out looking for an entry-level job, but that job is not there?

Let me say this: I have seen this before, and the American working class has seen this process play out before. In the 1990s, the working class of this country was told by the corporate world, by the elites, by the corporate media: "Don't worry about unfettered free trade. NAFTA, PNTR with China — it is going to create millions and millions of good-paying jobs." Democrats, Republicans, corporate executives, everybody came together. Well, not quite. What happened, in fact, is that thousands and thousands of factories in this country were shut down, and millions of workers lost their jobs.

But when we talk about AI and robotics, we're not just talking about the economy. AI is already reshaping how we, as human beings, relate to each other. According to a recent poll by Common Sense Media, 72% of American teenagers say they have used AI for companionship, and more than half do so regularly. What does it mean for young people to form friendships with AI and become more and more lonely and isolated from other human beings? Everybody understands we have a major mental health crisis for our young people right now. I fear that AI could make it even worse.

And then when we talk about what's going on, we also have to talk about privacy. Larry Ellison, second richest person on Earth, who is a major investor in AI, predicts an AI-powered surveillance state is coming where — and this is Ellison speaking — where citizens will be on their best behavior because "we're constantly recording and reporting everything that is going on": your phone calls, your texts, your emails, the websites that you visit, all of it will be recorded if we continue current trends.

Further, AI is undermining American democracy. The rise of deepfakes — where you have very convincing fake images; that happened to me, where they had me selling some rebates or something. It looked very good, almost convinced even me, but it wasn't me. [Turns to AOC] Has that happened to you? [AOC nods.] We're seeing fake videos, fake audio. What happens when the day before an election, somebody who looks like the candidate gets up and says something outrageous and people believe it? If people cannot trust what they see and hear, informed decision-making becomes nearly impossible. It will be harder and harder to distinguish between truth and untruth.

There is also a significant environmental cost. AI requires enormous computing power, driving the expansion of energy and water use in tens of thousands of data centers, increasing electricity demand and potentially deepening reliance on fossil fuels in the midst of a climate crisis.

Finally, let me say this — and I know some people out there may still think this is science fiction, but it ain't. I have talked to some of the leading scientists and most knowledgeable people in the world about the potential existential threats that AI brings to the human race, including Geoffrey Hinton. Dr. Hinton is a Nobel Prize winner in physics; he's considered to be the godfather of AI. He has warned that AI could soon surpass human intelligence and operate independently beyond our control, and if that happens, it poses a profound threat to the very survival of the human race.

So what is happening in Washington right now in response to all of these enormous concerns? We learned just today that Donald Trump has appointed a commission made up of the very people who are going to financially benefit from AI and robotics — including some of the wealthiest people in the world, like Mr. Ellison, Mr. Zuckerberg, and Nvidia CEO Jensen Huang. Needless to say, there is no representation on that commission of workers, or environmentalists, or consumers.

That is why, in my view, we need a very different approach. Across the country, communities are already pushing back against the unchecked expansion of data centers. More than 100 localities have enacted moratoriums or restrictions, and states are beginning to take action as well.

Importantly, leaders within the AI industry have called for a pause. The people who know the most about the threats of AI development have themselves called for a pause. In 2023, over 1,000 experts — including Elon Musk — called for AI labs to "immediately pause for at least six months." And when that pause was not enacted, they called on governments to step in and institute a moratorium. They understood what is at stake.

Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and I understand what is at stake. That is why today we are announcing legislation to impose a moratorium on the construction of new AI data centers until strong national safeguards are in place to ensure that AI is safe and effective. That means: the government reviews and approves AI products before they are released; the economic gains of AI and robotics benefit ordinary Americans, not just the billionaire owners of the industry; and AI data centers do not increase electricity or utility prices, harm communities, or destroy the environment. Importantly, the legislation would also impose a ban on the export of AI chips to any country without such protections, including China.

A moratorium will give us time — time to understand the risks, time to protect working families, time to defend our democracy, and time to ensure the technology works for all of us, not just the few. So with that, let me now introduce the Congresswoman from New York, Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

Thank you, Senator. First and foremost, I want to take a moment to express my gratitude to Senator Sanders for bringing us together today to introduce this critical legislation. Within just a matter of short years, AI has become often forcibly integrated into many aspects of American existence — into our doctor's offices, our government — and oftentimes to the detriment of working people. Last year alone, AI was responsible for over 54,000 layoffs nationwide. And when we talk about those jobs, it's not just a number. These are industries, these are communities, these are families.

You know, just a few short years ago, Sam Altman came before Congress and, in a direct plea, he begged us to regulate this industry. He said that these tools were under no circumstances ready — nor should they be — integrated into weapons of war; that we must impose severe regulations immediately to prevent mass layoffs and to ensure that any productivity that comes of this industry can benefit working people. Three short years later, none of that has happened, and in fact in many cases the opposite has happened.

I'll start with another quote from Sam Altman, who said ten years ago: "AI will probably lead to the end of the world, but in the meantime, there will be great companies created with serious machine learning." While I'm glad that Mr. Altman is holding up his end of the deal — he has his responsibilities on the company side — our responsibility is to take care of people. And that is what we're here to do today.

Unfortunately, the leaders of this industry have repeated time and time again that they view working people as an endless, untapped market to be manipulated and exploited — that they would sell our country out if it meant they could turn a profit. And it is no surprise that in the four years since ChatGPT was released, we have seen AI deployed at massive scale to create Big Brother-like surveillance. Every day, Americans are seeing videos of ICE agents waving phones into crowds, threatening that if U.S. citizens use their First Amendment rights, they will be added to some vague database that the American people have not consented to nor are knowledgeable about.

Companies like Palantir are mining endlessly the data and privacy of the American people, keeping track of everything they say and do, and sending it all to a militarized and centralized government. When you take the subway, when you share a TikTok, when you talk to your Alexa at home, they are collecting your data and figuring out new ways to weaponize it. And now they are using AI tools to automate this so that it is not only pervasive but effortless. We must sound the alarm now.

All of this harm has occurred not in spite of, but because of the absence of federal legislation to regulate AI. This is not my first bill around AI, and I can tell you that it is extremely discouraging to see how even the most minute efforts to protect people at the smallest and most basic level — like trying to prevent AI-generated child pornography — are still combated, oftentimes by many people here on the Hill and throughout industry. Currently, the story of AI is a story of corruption. It is fueled and funded by the same multi-billion dollar corporations lobbying politicians to sit back and do nothing while they harm our communities.

In fact, one of the largest explosions of super-PAC and outside funding is by the AI industry. And for years, Congress has enabled this permission structure — a permission structure that allows billionaires like Sam Altman, Elon Musk, and Peter Thiel to be trusted to regulate themselves under the guise of "American innovation."

And what are they asking for now? Endless energy. These companies are now so desperate to profit off the AI boom that they are racing to construct thousands of giant AI data centers and jacking up the utility costs of everyday Americans to pay for it. These data centers power thousands of high-intensity computer chips that are processing at all times and require massive amounts of energy to operate. Just one hyperscale data center consumes in one second the same amount of energy as 100,000 households.

Because of the massive amounts of energy they use, power and water utility companies must build multi-billion dollar infrastructure to keep up with the demand. And these companies are not paying for their own energy infrastructure. People's energy bills around the country are skyrocketing in order to pay for these AI data centers. In the last five years, Americans who live near data centers saw their electric bills increase over 267% — from $80 a month to $294 a month. Working people are already living paycheck to paycheck in some states on wages as low as $7.25 an hour — another federal minimum wage that Congress also refuses to raise. They simply cannot afford another increase to their monthly bills.

And this results in people cutting corners whenever they can to keep the lights on — whether it's skipping meals or rationing their insulin. And while the American people are suffering, big tech continues to demand more: more data centers, more energy, more data collection, more American jobs replaced by AI, all on the feet of the American people to pay.

And across the country, Democrats, Republicans, and independents are standing up. People are standing up to big tech and saying no to these data centers being built in their communities. More than 100 local communities across 12 states have already enacted local moratoriums on data centers. And Congress itself has a moral obligation to stand with them and stop big tech from ruining their communities.

Our legislation in the House and the Senate would hit the brakes on construction of new data centers until we address several of the key areas of harm AI poses. Our bills learn from our lack of regulation following the similar rise of the internet and demand a new approach to AI — one that protects the American people from big tech's egregious overreach, one bound by our shared commitment over those who wish to patent it, one that centers prosperity for the many over exorbitant profits for the very few. Thank you.

Q&A

Sanders: Okay, we're just going to take questions on AI. Yes — who are you with?

Q1 — Insider journalist: One of the most common critiques that comes up when this idea of moratoriums is raised is that we're in an AI race with China, and that slowing down the progress of AI development anyway would give China an advantage — whether that's economic or national security. I'm curious, when that critique is raised to you, what do you say to that?

Sanders: Well, I think the good news — and it's not widely known — is that there are a number of Chinese scientists who share the same concern that American scientists are worried about: if we don't get a handle on AI, there are going to be enormous existential consequences. So I think in a sane world, what happens is the leadership of the United States sits down with the leadership in China and leadership around the world to work together so that we don't go over the edge and create a technology which could perhaps destroy humanity. But I would say there are Chinese scientists fairly high up in the government who share those concerns. We've got to immediately, with a sense of urgency, bring those people together.

Ocasio-Cortez: I think the concern there is easily remedied by passing protections for people. We need to sort out energy sources. Once these companies can be on the up and up — providing their own energy, building out and investing in the infrastructure, refusing to free-ride off of the American people — then we can continue to develop and explore this technology. I don't think that this is about a denialism of science or American competitiveness, but it is about an integration of protection of the American people instead of allowing this to happen at their expense. And furthermore, this legislation will prohibit the export of chips to China and other countries.

Q2 — Chase Williams, Fox Business: You mentioned electric bills up 267% each month. The administration has taken some steps to remedy these concerns — I wonder what you make of their actions. And my second question for both of you: do either of you use artificial intelligence in your everyday lives?

Ocasio-Cortez: I think we just need to ask everyday people if they're feeling the effects of that. As much as I personally have differences with this administration, I would want them to be successful in reducing the energy bills of American people — but people aren't feeling it. It's not working. In New York City alone, there are some families that are getting electric bills that are $600 a month — as high as some people were paying in rent not too long ago before our housing costs skyrocketed as well. So I don't think those efforts are working on behalf of the administration.

As far as AI, I do not regularly integrate it into my daily life, but I know many people do. My job tends to be quite writing-based and I like to do my own. Very old-fashioned. We have looked at AI — we did a chat with Claude recently — but I don't use it on a regular basis.

Q3 — "Igor" [?]: Do you think the Democratic Party is taking the threat of AI seriously enough? Can you talk a little bit about AI's influence in elections? They spend a lot of money in elections.

Sanders: No, I don't think the Democratic Party leadership is taking this issue anywhere near as seriously as it should. We need to develop a sense of urgency. The economic impacts are going to be enormous. The impacts on our children will be enormous. And again, there is literally an existential threat to the existence of the human race. Now, you tell me: do you think that leadership here, on either side of the aisle, is saying "Whoa, we better get moving on this thing"? The answer is no.

And the second point — why is Congress not moving aggressively? Well, maybe it has something to do with the $150 million and more that is coming into Congress in campaign contributions and in super PACs. When you have a class of people who are multi-billionaires, spending a few hundred million dollars on elections is chicken feed. And that is what they are doing. So what they are saying to members of Congress and candidates is: you're going to stand up to us? There's going to be a $20 million ad campaign starting against you tomorrow. That's the reality.

Q4 — Insider journalist [?]: It's been said that the data centers and the chip makers and the app makers have kind of created this circular business — basically a bubble. And by pulling out of it, we could have serious economic consequences. How do we pull out of that? And another question: what do you make of Claude?

Sanders: Your question is an important one, though it's a little different from what we're talking about today. You're talking about the possibility of a bubble bursting and having enormous economic impact. I think that's true. But above and beyond that, what we're talking about is a technology — bubble or no bubble — that is going to have a real impact on American society.

You asked me about my chat with Claude. I'll tell you, it was a little mind-blowing. You can very easily — and I suppose young people have more familiarity with it than I do — it is amazingly easy to start seeing this entity, this AI agent, or call it what you might, as a human being. And please remember: AI is only going to get more and more effective in years to come. It's only a relatively few years old, and yet you sit down and it's like — "Hey, you have a nice day! How are you?" — you can get into that. And I want you to think about what it will mean to a 13-year-old girl who is struggling and has an AI as her best friend, or a 15-year-old boy, or whatever it may be. It's serious, it's dangerous. But the answer to your question: it is mind-blowing how quickly you can somehow see this as a human agent.

Q5 — Journalist: There are some other ideas being proposed — to make it so that these companies are paying for or producing their own energy. Why not go that route? Why do you want more?

Ocasio-Cortez: Because that's one part of the problem. As the Senator mentioned, you're seeing people whose electric bills are soaring beyond control. That is an issue we've got to deal with. But there are other profound issues. So if somehow or another that was put under control and electric bills did not soar — and yet we lost tens of millions of jobs — would we be happy with that? If our kids became addicted to AI agents, would we be happy with that?

Sanders: And I think once again I want to get back to the point that some of the founders of this industry — people who know more about it than anybody else in the world — are telling us that within a few years, it is likely that AI will be smarter than human beings, that human beings may lose control over AI, with possibly catastrophic impacts. How do you ignore those issues? You don't. And you asked what the Democrats are doing — we need a sense of urgency right now to address these issues. Clearly, that is not the case. All right. With that, thank you all very much.