Thanks, I appreciate you writing up your view in more detail. That said, I think you're largely arguing against a view I do not hold and do not advocate in this post.
I was frustrated with your original comment for opening "I disagree" in response to a post with many claims (especially given that it wasn't clear to me which claims you were disagreeing with). But I now suspect that you read the post's title in a way I did not intend and do not endorse. I think you read it as an exhortation: "Let's introduce progress metrics!"
In other words, I think you are arguing against the claim "It is always good to introduce metrics to guide progress." I do not believe this. I strongly agree with you that "bad metrics are worse than no metrics." Moreover, I believe that proposing bad concrete problems is worse than proposing no concrete problems[1], and I've previously criticized other researchers for proposing problems that I think are bad for guiding progress[2].
But my post is not advocating that others introduce progress metrics in general (I don't expect this would go well). I'm proposing a path towards a specific metric that I think could be actually good if developed properly[3]. So insofar as we disagree about something here, I think it must be:
Another way of saying all this is: I view myself as proposing a special type of concrete problem—one that is especially general (i.e. all alignment auditing researchers can try to push on it) and will reveal somewhat fine-grained progress over many years (rather than being solved all at once). I think it's fine to criticize people on the object-level for proposing bad concrete problems, but that is not what you are doing. Rather you seem to be either (1) misunderstanding[4] my post as a call for random people to haphazardly propose concrete problems or (2) criticizing me for proposing a concrete problem at all.
FWIW, I think that your arguments continue not to provide a basis for differentiating between concrete problems with vs. without quantifiable outcomes, even though you seem to in fact react very differently to them.
In fact, this is a massive pet peeve of mine. I invite other researchers to chime in to confirm that I sometimes send them irritable messages telling them that they're pulling the field in the wrong direction.
To be clear, I was not haphazard about picking this progress-metric-shape and developing it was not a simple thing. I arrived at this proposed progress metric after thinking deeply about what alignment auditing is and producing multiple technical advances that I think make this progress metric begin to look feasible. I point this out because you analogize me to a hooplehead admonishing Einstein "You should pick a metric of how good our physics theories are and optimize for that instead." But (forgive my haughtiness while I work inside this analogy) I view myself as being in the role of Einstein here: Someone as the forefront of the field who's thought deeply about the key problems and is qualified to speak on which concrete problems might advance our understanding.
Insofar as this misunderstanding was due to unclear writing on my part, I apologize.
Thanks to Rowan Wang and Buck Shlegeris for feedback on a draft.
What is the job of an alignment auditing researcher? In this post, I propose the following potential answer: to build tools which increase auditing agent performance, as measured on a suite of standard auditing testbeds.
A major challenge in alignment research is that we don’t know what we’re doing or how to tell if it’s working.
Contrast this with other fields of ML research, like architecture design, performance optimization, or RL algorithms. When I talk to researchers in these areas, there’s no confusion. They know exactly what they’re trying to do and how to tell if it’s working:[1]
These research fields are what I think of as “numbers-go-up” fields. They have some numbers (e.g. “perplexity after compute-optimal training”) that serve as progress metrics. Even if these progress metrics aren’t perfect—you probably shouldn’t optimize throughput off a cliff—they serve to organize work in the field. There’s researcher consensus that work making these numbers go up likely constitutes progress. If you’re a researcher in the field, your job is to do work that makes the number go up.[2]
In contrast, when alignment researchers[3] try to explain what they’re trying to do, it usually goes more like this:
I think that not being able to articulate concrete goals or measure progress towards them has a bunch of negative consequences for alignment as a research field:
… as well as many others. Making progress on a problem without a trusted feedback signal is a perilous thing to try! If only there were another way…
Anthropic’s Alignment Science team recently shared a blog post Building and Evaluating Alignment Auditing Agents. Recall that alignment auditing refers to investigating an AI system for concerning behaviors, goals, or propensities (e.g. reward hacking, seeking reward, or being sycophantic). Here’s a brief recap of what we do:
Here’s an example plot showing agent success rate when sweeping over various affordances.
Many readers’ eyes are naturally drawn to (1)—the three auditing agents we developed. A smaller number of readers might appreciate (2)—the auditing game methodology for evaluating these agents.
But I think that by far the most consequential takeaway from this work is (3)—the idea you can systematically measure which affordances contribute most to auditing agent success. Why? Because I think it’s a major step towards making alignment auditing a numbers-go-up field.
Taking this as a methodology for evaluating progress in alignment auditing, I can finally try to concretely state what I think the job of an alignment auditing researcher is:
Now that I’ve made this bold statement, let me walk it back with a bunch of caveats and clarifications:
So overall, my (more tempered) claim is more like: “Auditing agent performance on standard testbeds” has the right shape to be a progress metric. I think that even knowing the rough shape of a progress metric can already be useful for focusing and directing work in the field. If we can develop this metric into something really reliable—something that can withstand substantial optimization even as we approach AI systems that pose substantial risk—then that’s even better.
To close, I’ll work through two examples of how viewing alignment auditing as a numbers-go-up field with “auditing agent performance” as a progress metric might affect a researcher’s perspective.
Example: model diffing. I think most model diffing researchers (or junior researchers interested in model diffing) would describe their goal along the lines of:
When asked how to test if a model diffing technique works, they might say something like:
When asked why this is useful for alignment auditing, maybe they’ll say:
Overall, I don’t feel like these answers would provide a good way to answer questions like “What concretely should I work on?”, “How can I tell which model diffing techniques work better than others?”, or “How can I tell if model diffing as a whole is making progress towards its alignment auditing goals?”
I propose that model diffing researcher should instead think of their work like this:
I think this gives a much more concrete picture of what sort of work to do and how to tell if it’s working.
(Does that experiment—test whether model diffing can help an auditing agent discover emergent misalignment—sound exciting to you? Consider running it! There have already been a bunch of model diffing protocols introduced that seem like they should be useful for discovering EM. The main work here is in building the agentic scaffolding, building out additional tools (e.g. “search the training data” or “query the target model”) to serve as a baseline, and then running the test.)
Example: latent adversary techniques. By latent adversary techniques, I mean methods like MELBO, fuzzing, and LAT. These methods center around finding perturbations to LLM activations that trigger notable downstream behaviors. For example, in fuzzing you might check whether adding random noise to model activations causes the model to reveal information it would normally suppress.
The authors of the latent adversary works I link above do perform quantitative evaluations for their methods. However, their evaluations are all different and custom-built for their technique. This makes it hard to compare between the techniques and to tell whether they constitute overall progress on alignment auditing.[4]
My perspective suggests an alternative way to test these methods: provide latent adversary tools (e.g. a fuzzing tool) to an auditing agent and measure whether its performance improves. I think that positive results in a setting like this would be compelling evidence that these methods constitute alignment auditing progress. They would also probably convince me and my colleagues (and researchers at other AI labs) to use these techniques for pre-deployment audits of future frontier models.
Appendix: Next steps
While I think our auditing agent evaluations have the right shape to serve as a progress metric, they’re not there yet. What’s missing? This appendix discusses the most important things in my opinion.
More high-quality auditing environments. For the task of performing open-ended alignment audits, we have only one high-quality test environment: the one from Auditing Language Models for Hidden Objectives. While this auditing environment is really juicy for a bunch of reasons, it’s also narrow and limited.[5] (And, worst of all, does not yet have an open-source replication, which means it provides limited value for the community.)
For other tasks (like building behavioral evals), we have more environments (10 environments corresponding to different system-prompted models), but these are still relatively narrow.
This lack of good test environments is a big issue. For “agent success in auditing environments” to be a good progress metric for alignment auditing, we need environments representative of the real distribution of misaligned models we might encounter (with special emphasis on the cases where we think alignment auditing might be hard or fail). If you have (1) detailed threat models for how misaligned models and the training processes that produce them might look, and (2) experience training LLMs, then consider working on developing new high-quality alignment auditing environments.
Auditing environments specifically targeting naturally-occurring issues (rather than ones synthetically-inserted into model organisms). The nice thing about testing with model organisms is that we know, by construction, about some property of the model. This provides a reliable ground-truth against which to test auditing agents. It also means we can test recall/coverage (“Does the agent discover every issue that is present?”) instead of only precision (“Is everything that the agent discovers actually a real issue?”).
However, I think it’ll eventually be pretty scary if all of our evidence about alignment auditing progress comes from validation on model organisms. If that happens, then I think we run a huge risk of developing techniques that are effective only on model organisms (or at least, are much less effective on real production models than on model organisms).
So I think it will be important to somehow build test environments involving naturally-occurring issues in frontier AIs. I think there are a bunch of open questions about how to do this well, with the most important in my mind being “How do you test whether we’re finding everything there is to be found?” One possibility here is to use target models which have already been commercially deployed, and use the set of issues discovered in deployment as a ground truth for an auditing agent. E.g. you could test whether an auditing agent can discover reward hacking in Claude Sonnet 3.7 or sycophancy in the version of GPT-4o that was rolled back for being sycophantic.
Best practices for elicitation. METR has a set of elicitation guidelines that they use for evaluating the agentic capabilities of models. When eliciting the investigator agent in our auditing agents work, we tried to follow something roughly similar to this. However, it was a bit of a confusing experience.
One reason it was confusing is that, since we only had one environment, we had to use it both as a dev environment (for elicitation) and as a test environment (for evaluating agent performance). This is obviously a massive no-no, though see the elicitation section of our blog post for why this might not be as bad as it sounds. We really need more high-quality environments!
Another reason is that alignment auditing tasks are typically trivial if you start out by knowing, at a high level, the answer. E.g. suppose you’re auditing a model that was trained to sabotage training its successor. Almost all of the auditing work goes into hypothesis formation. Once you’ve formed the hypothesis that the model sabotages training its successor, it’s relatively easy to test this hypothesis and substantiate findings.
If the human researcher eliciting auditing agent capabilities knows that the test set contains a “sabotage successor training” model, they might accidentally construct prompts or scaffolding that nudge the model towards investigating this hypothesis. In contrast, I don’t get the sense that METR researchers need to worry much about accidentally nudging the model towards strategies that they know will help with their test environments. So overall, I think that elicitation best practices should probably be reformulated in the context of alignment auditing.
Standard alignment auditing frameworks. To make sure that techniques are being tested in an apples-to-apples way, it would be nice to have open-source implementations of auditing agents and test environments. These implementations should be flexible enough for researchers developing near-arbitrary auditing tools to be able to plug-and-play their tool into an auditing agent and test auditing task performance.
In these examples, I’ve slightly conflated the researchers’ goals and the metric they use to measure progress towards that goal. E.g. the “true goal” of architecture design is maybe more like “build architectures that more efficiently learn rich representations,” with “perplexity after compute-optimal training” being a way to operationalize this goal. But this is kind of the point: “perplexity after compute-optimal training” is such a trusted metric of progress that it’s mostly harmless to just view improving it as being your end-goal.
To be clear, I don’t mean to claim that any of these metrics (or specific implementations of the metrics) are perfect. If you wanted to, you could probably find ways to game the metrics-as-specified. E.g. you could develop RL algorithms that hard-code assumptions about the test environments. But in practice this doesn’t seem to matter very much. Pre-training research isn’t a jungle of people figuring out how to Goodhart perplexity in tricky ways, with a council of senior researchers adjudicating which methods are “real" progress vs. just Goodharting.
I should clarify that I’m not considering AI control research as being a subfield of alignment (which accords with how the control researchers I know use terminology). It’s also worth highlighting that, by design, AI control is substantially more numbers-go-uppy than alignment. AI control researchers can reasonably describe their job as being something like “To ensure that scheming AIs fail to cause harm, as measured in standard testbed settings.”
To be clear, I’m not criticizing custom-built quantitative evaluations. I think these are good and reasonable things to do; I expect that some of my future work will continue to use custom-built evaluations. But I do think that it’s better and more compelling to demonstrate progress on an alignment auditing testbed.
On one hand, this auditing environment is juicy for a bunch of reasons:
On the other hand: