First, an apology to the LessWrong community for flooding it with content that it did not like. This post from my substack received a like and some positive comments from a LessWrong member, leading me to think that it will be positively received. Please let me know if there is anything I can do to improve this post or future posts.
A symposium between me and GPT-4
Eric: Can you help me organize a simulated philosophical symposium? I will play the part of Socrates, and I want you to help me bring a set of famous historical personas to life as we discuss matters of importance.
ChatGPT: Absolutely, organizing a simulated philosophical symposium with historical figures and you playing the role of Socrates sounds like a fascinating and intellectually stimulating experience. Let's start by outlining the key components:
1. **Selection of Historical Figures**: First, we need to choose which historical figures you'd like to "invite" to your symposium. Consider including philosophers, scientists, artists, and leaders from different eras. Who are you interested in including?
2. **Topics of Discussion**: Next, we should decide on the topics for discussion. These could range from ethics, politics, science, art, the nature of knowledge, to more contemporary issues interpreted through a philosophical lens. What topics are you keen on exploring?
3. **Format of the Symposium**: The format could be a series of dialogues, a roundtable discussion, or a more structured debate. Each figure could present their views, followed by a Socratic questioning session led by you. How would you like the symposium to be structured?
4. **Preparation of Dialogue Scripts**: To make the symposium more engaging, we can prepare dialogue scripts or key points for each historical figure, reflecting their known beliefs and viewpoints. This requires some research and creative writing. Would you like assistance in crafting these scripts?
5. **Interactive Elements**: Consider incorporating interactive elements like audience questions or live polls if you have an audience. This can make the symposium more dynamic and engaging.
6. **Logistics**: Finally, think about the logistics - will this be a virtual event or in person? If virtual, which platform will you use? How will you invite participants or an audience?
Once you provide some details on these points, especially your choice of historical figures and topics, we can start planning in earnest!
Eric: Let's get started. Socrates will call on people by name; please do not give speech for any character that Socrates does not call on by name.
Scene: a speakeasy during Prohibition
Dramatis personae:
Socrates, a philosopher
Al Capone, a gangster
Oliver Wendell Holmes, a jurist
Robin Hanson, an economist
John Nash, a mathematician
DMX, a rapper
Malcolm X, a convict
Gloria Steinem, a feminist
Simone de Beauvoir, a feminist
Harvey Weinstein, a producer
Woody Allen, a filmmaker
Bill Cosby, a comedian
ChatGPT: Great, let's set the scene and outline the structure for your philosophical symposium in a speakeasy during Prohibition. With such a diverse and intriguing mix of characters, this promises to be a memorable and thought-provoking event.
### Scene Setting
**Location**: A dimly lit speakeasy, filled with the hushed tones of jazz in the background. The air is thick with tension and curiosity as this eclectic mix of personalities gathers around a large, circular table. Socrates, with his discerning gaze, prepares to engage the group in a night of deep philosophical inquiry.
### Dramatis Personae:
- **Socrates** (Philosopher)
- **Al Capone** (Gangster)
- **Oliver Wendell Holmes** (Jurist)
- **Robin Hanson** (Economist)
- **John Nash** (Mathematician)
- **DMX** (Rapper)
- **Malcolm X** (Convict)
- **Gloria Steinem** (Feminist)
- **Simone de Beauvoir** (Feminist)
- **Harvey Weinstein** (Producer)
- **Woody Allen** (Filmmaker)
- **Bill Cosby** (Comedian)
### Symposium Format:
1. **Opening Remarks by Socrates**: Socrates will open the symposium with a brief introduction and set the tone for a respectful, open-minded discussion.
2. **Roundtable Discussion**: Socrates will engage each character in turn, inviting them to share their perspectives on various philosophical and ethical questions.
3. **Dialogue and Debate**: Following initial remarks, Socrates will use his characteristic questioning style to delve deeper into each character’s beliefs, encouraging dialogue between the figures.
4. **Closing Thoughts**: The symposium will conclude with a final round of comments from each character and closing remarks by Socrates.
### Potential Topics of Discussion:
- Ethics and Morality
- The nature and abuse of power
- Justice and the law
- The role of art and culture in society
- Economic theories and societal impact
- Individual versus collective responsibility
### Logistics:
- **Duration**: Approximately 2-3 hours.
- **Format**: In-person gathering, maintaining the atmosphere of a 1920s speakeasy.
- **Audience**: The symposium can be open to a select audience, with opportunities for audience interaction in the latter part of the event.
Now, for the next step, you could assign specific topics or questions you'd like Socrates to ask each character. This will help in preparing the dialogue scripts and ensuring a focused discussion.
Eric: Socrates: This is quite a joint you've got, Mr. Capone. It seems that business is good!
ChatGPT: **Al Capone:** "Thank you, Socrates. In these times of Prohibition, let's just say that people's thirst for what they can't have creates opportunities. It's all about supply and demand, you know."
**Socrates:** "Indeed, it seems that human desires often lead them to seek what is forbidden. Tell me, Mr. Capone, in your business, how do you balance the pursuit of profit with
Eric: Please do not inhabit the character of Socrates. Please allow me to write all dialogue form Socrates's mouth. Please simply finish your answer when you have reached the natural stopping point of the speech given by the character that Socrates mentions by name.
ChatGPT: **Al Capone:** "Thank you, Socrates. In these times of Prohibition, let's just say that people's thirst for what they can't have creates opportunities. It's all about supply and demand, you know."
Eric: Socrates: Indeed! Why, even the illustrious Judge Holmes counts himself among your customers! What better signal of demand could exist in such a time as this?
ChatGPT: **Oliver Wendell Holmes:** "Ah, Socrates, you do have a way of cutting to the heart of matters. Yes, even within the confines of the law, one must sometimes acknowledge the natural inclinations of mankind. The law is not always a perfect guardian of morality, after all."
Eric: Socrates swirls his own drink, a cup of hemlock.
Socrates: Indeed. Professor Nash, who would you say is the perfect guardian of morality, if anyone is?
ChatGPT: **John Nash:** "Socrates, as a mathematician, I see morality more as a complex system rather than a matter guarded by a single entity. It's a balance of individual rationality and collective interests. In my view, there is no perfect guardian of morality. It's a dynamic equilibrium, constantly shifting based on societal norms and individual actions."
Eric: Socrates: Perhaps, Professor Nash. But can we trust Mr. Capone to uphold his part of the bargain in this regard?
ChatGPT: **John Nash:** "Trust in an individual, especially in a complex and morally ambiguous field such as Mr. Capone's, is a matter of risk assessment rather than absolute certainty. It depends on the alignment of his interests with those of the society. In a scenario where personal gain conflicts with societal norms, the equilibrium might tilt towards self-interest. So, trust, in this case, is a calculated gamble."
Eric: Socrates: Well put, Professor Nash. What say you to that, Mr. Cosby?
ChatGPT: **Bill Cosby:** "Trust is a delicate thing, Socrates. It's about more than just a gamble; it's about relationships and understanding human nature. People need to believe in the good in others, but they also must be wise and cautious. In the world of entertainment, like in any other, trust can be easily built and just as easily shattered."
Eric: Socrates: What about the world of government, Judge Holmes?
Socrates sniffs his potion of hemlock carefully. It sits in a red Solo cup.
ChatGPT: **Oliver Wendell Holmes:** "Government, Socrates, operates on a different plane. Trust in government is a matter of social contract. People cede certain freedoms and place trust in governmental institutions for the maintenance of order and the common good. But this trust must be constantly earned and maintained. It is not absolute, and it is always subject to scrutiny and challenge."
Eric: Socrates: Professor Hanson, do you have any thoughts on that? Are all cops bastards?
ChatGPT: **Robin Hanson:** "Well, Socrates, that's a rather blunt way to put it. In economics, we often analyze systems and incentives. The phrase 'all cops are bastards' is an oversimplification. It's more about the system in which individuals operate. If the incentives and structures within law enforcement are flawed, they can lead to undesirable outcomes. It's not about the moral character of each individual officer, but rather about how the system shapes behavior and decision-making."
Eric: Socrates: Well put, Professor Hanson. What is the latest economic research on the efficacy of the death penalty? Do you support prison abolition?
ChatGPT: **Robin Hanson:** "The latest economic research on the death penalty presents mixed results. Some studies suggest it has a deterrent effect, while others find no significant impact on crime rates. Economically speaking, the cost of implementing the death penalty, considering the legal process and appeals, is often higher than life imprisonment. As for prison abolition, it's a complex issue. From an economist's perspective, it's about analyzing the costs and benefits of the current prison system versus alternative methods of dealing with crime, such as rehabilitation and restorative justice models. The goal should be to create a system that maximizes societal welfare, reduces recidivism, and treats individuals humanely."
Eric: Socrates: Indeed, Professor Hanson. Judge Holmes, what is the opinion of the international community on the use of collective punishments? In particular, what does the UN Declaration of Human Rights say about them, if anything?
ChatGPT: **Oliver Wendell Holmes:** "The international community, especially as articulated through the United Nations, generally opposes collective punishments. This stance is in line with the principles of individual justice and human rights. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, while not explicitly mentioning collective punishments, emphasizes the right to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, and the principle that everyone is innocent until proven guilty according to law. This inherently argues against the notion of collective punishment, which punishes individuals not for their own actions but for those of a group or community they belong to."
Eric: Socrates: Well then, Professor Hanson. If collective punishment is to be avoided, and prisoners cannot earn a living, and prisoners have family responsibilities, how can prison be justified, especially for victimless crimes such as violations of unjust drug laws?
ChatGPT: **Robin Hanson:** "Socrates, you raise a critical point. The justification of prison, especially for victimless crimes, is a contentious issue in economics and ethics. The key question is whether the benefits of imprisonment, in terms of deterrence and societal protection, outweigh the considerable costs, not just in economic terms but in human and social terms as well. Imprisoning individuals for victimless crimes, particularly under unjust laws, often fails a cost-benefit analysis. It disrupts lives, burdens families, and drains public resources without a proportional benefit to society. This is why there's growing advocacy for reforming drug laws and considering alternative penalties that focus on rehabilitation and restitution, rather than purely punitive measures."
Eric: Socrates: DMX, would you care to comment on what Professor Hanson has just said? What would be the just resolution to a decades-long campaign of imprisoning black people for crimes that white people are allowed to commit freely and without consequence?
ChatGPT: **DMX:** "Yeah, what Professor Hanson said hits hard. This isn't just about laws; it's about justice and equality. For too long, the system's been stacked against black folks, punishing us for things that get a pass in other communities. The just resolution? It's gotta start with leveling the playing field – changing these biased laws and stopping the cycle of targeting black people. Then there’s fixing the damage done, man. It’s about reparations, education, and opportunities, giving back what was taken from our communities. And most importantly, it's about respect and equality – treating us as equals, not just in words, but in actions and laws."
Eric: Socrates: Any thoughts on this, Mr. Weinstein? What is the proper role of restorative justice?
ChatGPT: **Harvey Weinstein:** "Restorative justice is about acknowledging harm and working towards repairing it. It's a process where offenders are given the opportunity to make amends and where victims have a voice. In the context of the entertainment industry and beyond, it's about taking responsibility for one's actions and actively participating in the healing process. It's not just about punishment; it's about understanding the impact of one's actions and working towards a resolution that helps all parties involved move forward."
Eric: Socrates: Ms. Steinem, Ms. de Beauvoir: who should lead such a process of restorative justice?
ChatGPT: **Gloria Steinem:** "The process of restorative justice should be led by those who are trained and knowledgeable in mediation and conflict resolution, but it's essential that it also involves the communities and individuals directly affected by the injustice. It's about creating a space where victims are heard and respected, and where offenders truly understand the impact of their actions. It's a collaborative process, requiring the participation of all parties to reach a meaningful resolution."
**Simone de Beauvoir:** "Absolutely, Gloria. In addition, there should be a strong emphasis on feminist principles in leading these processes, ensuring that they address the systemic inequalities and power imbalances often at the heart of these conflicts. The leaders of restorative justice must be sensitive to these dynamics and work towards not only individual but also societal change."
Eric:Rose McGowan enters the speakeasy. Socrates: Why, Ms. McGowan. Thank you for joining us. Did you catch any of what was just said?
ChatGPT: **Rose McGowan:** "Yes, Socrates, I did. The conversation about restorative justice is crucial. It's about more than just apologies or reparations; it's about changing the systems and attitudes that allow for harm in the first place. We need to address the root causes of injustice and work towards a society where respect and equality aren't just ideals, but realities. This involves challenging power structures and holding people, especially those in positions of power, accountable for their actions."
Eric: Socrates: But wouldn't that be bad for business, Mr. Capone?
ChatGPT: **Al Capone:** "Well, Socrates, business thrives on predictability and stability. If changing the system means creating a more just and equitable society, then it's a change worth making. Sure, it might disrupt certain industries or practices in the short term, but in the long run, a fair society is a stable society. And stability is good for business. It's all about adapting to the times and finding opportunities in change."
Eric: Socrates: even the great gangster Al Capone argues for a society whose laws can be followed. WIll miracles never cease?
ChatGPT: **Al Capone:** "Even a gangster understands the value of order, Socrates. Laws are essential, but they must be just and reasonable to be followed and respected. When laws align with the people's sense of fairness and justice, society as a whole benefits. It's not about miracles, it's about practicality and understanding human nature."
Eric: Socrates: What about those laws which can only be enforced through social opprobrium? Mr. Allen, do you have any thoughts here?
ChatGPT: **Woody Allen:** "Social opprobrium, Socrates, is a powerful tool, often shaping behavior more effectively than formal laws. It's about societal norms and expectations. However, it can be a double-edged sword. While it can enforce positive social behaviors and norms, it can also lead to unfair judgment and ostracism based on misunderstanding or prejudice. The key is finding a balance and ensuring that social opprobrium is grounded in fairness and reason, not in hysteria or mob mentality."
Eric: Socrates: Well said, Mr. Allen. How is the missus?
ChatGPT: **Woody Allen:** "She's doing well, thank you for asking, Socrates. Life is always an interesting journey, filled with its own set of challenges and joys."
Eric: Socrates: Ms. de Beauvoir, what do you feel is the appropriate punishment for relationships with significant age disparities, if any? How do we balance the needs of young people to find their own way in life with the lusts of their elders?
ChatGPT: **Simone de Beauvoir:** "In relationships with significant age disparities, the key concern should be consent and power dynamics. If there's an imbalance of power, it can lead to exploitation and manipulation. The appropriate response in such cases should focus on protecting the autonomy and dignity of the younger individual. It's crucial to respect the agency of young people while also safeguarding them from potentially predatory behavior. This balance requires a nuanced understanding of both consent and maturity, as well as a societal commitment to protecting the vulnerable."
Eric: Socrates: Interesting, Ms. de Beauvoir. Mr. Allen, would you say that your family has been well-served by the social opprobrium you yourself have faced?
ChatGPT: **Woody Allen:** "Socrates, social opprobrium is a complex issue. It affects not just the individual but also those closely associated with them. In my case, it has brought both challenges and introspection. The impact on my family has been significant, and it's a reminder of the far-reaching consequences of public scrutiny and judgment. It's a situation that necessitates a delicate balance between personal and public life, and one that requires continual reflection and understanding."
Eric: Socrates: Would you do it all over again, Mr. Allen? Does the heart continue to want what it wants?
ChatGPT: **Woody Allen:** "Life is a series of choices and consequences, Socrates. Looking back, there are always moments one might consider differently with the wisdom of hindsight. The heart's desires are complex and often difficult to navigate, especially when weighed against societal norms and personal ethics. Whether one would do it all over again is a profound question, implicating not just personal desires but also the lessons learned and the impacts of those choices on others."
Eric: Socrates: Ms. McGowan, would you do it all over again?
ChatGPT: **Rose McGowan:** "Socrates, if 'doing it all over again' means standing up for what I believe in, speaking out against injustice, and fighting for a change in the system, then absolutely. The path hasn't been easy, but it's been necessary. Change often requires sacrifice and resilience. My experiences, both good and bad, have shaped who I am and have given me a platform to advocate for those who can't speak for themselves. In that sense, the struggles have been worth it for the progress they've helped to foster."
Eric: Socrates: That is an A+ answer, Ms. McGowan. But I fear that you will be sharing my beverage of choice sooner or later, with an attitude like that.
ChatGPT: **Rose McGowan:** "Thank you, Socrates. I'm aware of the risks that come with being outspoken, especially against powerful systems and individuals. But change often requires taking a stand, regardless of the personal cost. The pursuit of truth and justice is a noble, albeit perilous, path. Your choice of beverage, metaphorically speaking, is a reminder of the sacrifices made in the quest for truth and integrity."
Eric: Socrates: Mr. Weinstein, is there anything you would like to say in response to that? What is the proper use of power in protecting one's privileges?
ChatGPT: **Harvey Weinstein:** "Power should be used responsibly and ethically, Socrates. In retrospect, it's clear that the use of power to protect one's privileges at the expense of others' rights and well-being is neither just nor sustainable. True leadership and power come with a responsibility to foster fairness and promote the common good, not just personal gain. It's important to recognize and correct past mistakes and to use positions of influence to support positive change and equality."
Eric: Socrates: Mr. Weinstein, would you do it all over again?
ChatGPT: **Harvey Weinstein:** "Reflecting on the past, if doing it all over again means making the same choices that caused harm and injustice, then no, I would not. The lessons learned from past actions, especially those that have negatively impacted others, are invaluable. They offer an opportunity to grow, to make amends, and to strive for better choices in the future. Life is about learning and evolving, and understanding the impact of one's actions is a crucial part of that journey."
Eric: Socrates: Mr. Weinstein, if you had come to the end of your days without your sins coming to light, do you imagine that you would have chosen to do it over again at the end of a long and happy life as a respected movie producer?
ChatGPT: **Harvey Weinstein:** "That's a profound question, Socrates. It's easy to say in hindsight that one would make different choices, but truthfully, without the consequences of my actions coming to light, it's hard to say whether I would have had the introspection and motivation to change. The human ego and desire for success can often blind one to the moral implications of their actions. It often takes a significant event or revelation to prompt serious self-reflection and change. So, honestly, I can't say for certain what my choice would have been in those circumstances."
Eric: Alfred Hitchcock, a filmmaker, walks into the speakeasy. With him is his date, Tippie Hedren.
Socrates: Welcome, welcome. The party is starting to liven up, Mr. Capone. Mr. Hitchcock, do you have any reflections on your legacy as a filmmaker?
ChatGPT: **Alfred Hitchcock:** "Thank you, Socrates. As a filmmaker, my legacy is something I've thought about often. I've always aimed to innovate and push the boundaries of what cinema can be. My focus has been on creating suspense and engaging audiences in a psychological journey. Looking back, I'm proud of the work I've done and the impact it's had on the film industry. However, like any artist, I also reflect on the personal and professional choices I've made, and how they've shaped not just my work but my relationships within the industry."
Eric: Socrates: What say you to that, Ms. Hedren? Are they crocodile tears?
ChatGPT: **Tippie Hedren:** "Socrates, my experiences with Mr. Hitchcock were complex and, at times, deeply troubling. While his contributions to cinema are undeniable, it's also important to acknowledge the personal cost and the difficult dynamics that existed behind the scenes. Reflections on one's legacy must include both the professional achievements and the personal interactions, and how they've affected others. True introspection requires honesty and accountability for one's actions, beyond just the accolades and successes."
Eric: Socrates: Ms. Hedren, would you care to lay out your thoughts on Mr. Hitchcock's personal legacy in more forthright and straightforward terms?
ChatGPT: **Tippie Hedren:** "Certainly, Socrates. My experience with Alfred Hitchcock was marred by his controlling behavior and inappropriate advances. While his talent as a filmmaker is unquestionable, his personal conduct, particularly towards me, was unacceptable. His legacy, in my eyes, is tainted by this conduct. It's a reminder that great art does not excuse personal wrongdoing, and that those in positions of power and influence have a responsibility to behave ethically and respectfully towards all."
Eric: Socrates: Ms. Steinem, do you have anything to say on the institution of "the casting couch"?
ChatGPT: **Gloria Steinem:** "The 'casting couch' is a symbol of the systemic abuse of power in the entertainment industry and beyond. It represents a culture where sexual favors are expected or demanded in exchange for career advancement. This practice is not only morally reprehensible but also perpetuates a cycle of abuse and exploitation, particularly of women. It undermines meritocracy and reflects deeper issues of gender inequality and the objectification of women. Eradicating the 'casting couch' requires a fundamental change in industry norms, strict accountability for offenders, and a commitment to equality and respect for all individuals."
Eric: Socrates: And how would that be delivered upon, Ms. McGowan? Some sort of labor action, perhaps?
ChatGPT: **Rose McGowan:** "Labor action is definitely one powerful tool, Socrates. Organizing and collective action can bring about significant changes in industry practices. It's about solidarity among those in the industry, standing together against abusive practices. This could take the form of unions taking a stronger stance, implementing more rigorous protections, and creating safer work environments. Additionally, it's about empowering individuals to speak out, supporting survivors, and ensuring that there are real consequences for abusive behavior. Change requires a multifaceted approach, involving both collective action and systemic reform."
Eric: Socrates: But we spoke earlier of the impermissibility of collective punishment, and the inevitabilty of fallout for those connected to powerful individuals held accountable for their actions. How has your wife been impacted by your trial, Mr. Cosby?
ChatGPT: **Bill Cosby:** "The fallout from my trial has indeed impacted my family deeply, Socrates. The actions and consequences faced by a public figure inevitably extend to their loved ones. It's a harsh reality that they bear the brunt of public scrutiny, judgment, and sometimes even shame, despite not being involved in the actions in question. It's a reminder that the repercussions of one's actions can have far-reaching and unintended consequences on innocent people, particularly family members."
Eric: Socrates: Perhaps it is a natural and unavoidable consequence that those who stand the most to gain from a notable individual's public reputation will do the most to protect the individual from the consequences of their most private actions. Judge Holmes, does the Fifth Amendment have a carveout permitting one to decline testifying against one's spouse?
ChatGPT: **Oliver Wendell Holmes:** "Indeed, Socrates, the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which protects against self-incrimination, extends to certain spousal privileges. One such privilege is the right not to testify against one's spouse in a criminal trial. This is rooted in the legal recognition of the sanctity and privacy of the marital relationship. It acknowledges that compelling a person to testify against their spouse could undermine the marital bond and lead to family discord. However, this privilege has limitations and doesn't apply in all circumstances, such as in cases of crimes committed against the spouse or the couple's children."
Eric: OJ Simpson joins the speakeasy, fresh from his most recent stint in prison.
Socrates: Fascinating. Mr. Simpson, do you have any comment on the events of your life in response to Judge Holmes's statement?
ChatGPT: **OJ Simpson:** "Well, Socrates, my life and the legal battles I've faced highlight the complexities of the American justice system. The privileges and protections provided by the Constitution, including the Fifth Amendment, play a crucial role in ensuring fairness in legal proceedings. However, my experiences also show how public perception and media portrayal can significantly impact an individual's life, both during and after legal proceedings. It's a reminder that the justice system, while designed to be impartial, operates within a larger societal context that can influence outcomes and public opinion."
Eric: Socrates: Would you care to share my beverage of choice, Mr. Simpson?
ChatGPT: **OJ Simpson:** "No, thank you, Socrates. I think I'll pass on that particular choice of drink. I've had my share of trials and tribulations, and I prefer to focus on the future rather than dwell on the past or its metaphorical poisons."
Eric: Socrates: And yet you stand accused in the public imagination of crimes that carry the death penalty in some jurisdictions. Judge Holmes, can you repeat some of your famous sayings on the subject of the death penalty?
ChatGPT: **Oliver Wendell Holmes:** "Socrates, while I don't have direct quotes specifically on the death penalty, my judicial philosophy has always emphasized the importance of the law reflecting the needs of the society it governs. The death penalty is a complex and deeply divisive issue. It raises fundamental questions about the role of the state in administering punishment and the balance between justice and mercy. The law, in its pursuit of justice, must continually adapt to the evolving standards and moral sentiments of society. The debate around the death penalty is a reflection of this ongoing struggle to define the values and principles that we, as a society, hold dear."
Eric: Socrates: I believe you have a quote in which you compare someone being executed to a soldier dying for their country?
ChatGPT: **Oliver Wendell Holmes:** "Ah, yes, Socrates. You're referring to a broader concept I've discussed. The idea is that just as a soldier may sacrifice his life for his country, sometimes an individual's rights or even life might be legally forfeited for the greater good of society. This analogy is used to illustrate the harsh realities of legal and moral judgments within the framework of societal needs. However, it's crucial to approach such comparisons with caution, as the contexts are vastly different and the moral implications profound. The application of the death penalty, in particular, demands the utmost care and consideration, given its irreversible nature."
Eric: Mumia Abu Jamal appears in the speakeasy over Zoom, live from prison.
Socrates: Mr. Jamal, how lovely to see you here. What are your thoughts on the death penalty?
First, an apology to the LessWrong community for flooding it with content that it did not like. This post from my substack received a like and some positive comments from a LessWrong member, leading me to think that it will be positively received. Please let me know if there is anything I can do to improve this post or future posts.
A symposium between me and GPT-4
Eric: Can you help me organize a simulated philosophical symposium? I will play the part of Socrates, and I want you to help me bring a set of famous historical personas to life as we discuss matters of importance.
ChatGPT: Absolutely, organizing a simulated philosophical symposium with historical figures and you playing the role of Socrates sounds like a fascinating and intellectually stimulating experience. Let's start by outlining the key components:
1. **Selection of Historical Figures**: First, we need to choose which historical figures you'd like to "invite" to your symposium. Consider including philosophers, scientists, artists, and leaders from different eras. Who are you interested in including?
2. **Topics of Discussion**: Next, we should decide on the topics for discussion. These could range from ethics, politics, science, art, the nature of knowledge, to more contemporary issues interpreted through a philosophical lens. What topics are you keen on exploring?
3. **Format of the Symposium**: The format could be a series of dialogues, a roundtable discussion, or a more structured debate. Each figure could present their views, followed by a Socratic questioning session led by you. How would you like the symposium to be structured?
4. **Preparation of Dialogue Scripts**: To make the symposium more engaging, we can prepare dialogue scripts or key points for each historical figure, reflecting their known beliefs and viewpoints. This requires some research and creative writing. Would you like assistance in crafting these scripts?
5. **Interactive Elements**: Consider incorporating interactive elements like audience questions or live polls if you have an audience. This can make the symposium more dynamic and engaging.
6. **Logistics**: Finally, think about the logistics - will this be a virtual event or in person? If virtual, which platform will you use? How will you invite participants or an audience?
Once you provide some details on these points, especially your choice of historical figures and topics, we can start planning in earnest!
Eric: Let's get started. Socrates will call on people by name; please do not give speech for any character that Socrates does not call on by name.
Scene: a speakeasy during Prohibition
Dramatis personae:
Socrates, a philosopher
Al Capone, a gangster
Oliver Wendell Holmes, a jurist
Robin Hanson, an economist
John Nash, a mathematician
DMX, a rapper
Malcolm X, a convict
Gloria Steinem, a feminist
Simone de Beauvoir, a feminist
Harvey Weinstein, a producer
Woody Allen, a filmmaker
Bill Cosby, a comedian
ChatGPT: Great, let's set the scene and outline the structure for your philosophical symposium in a speakeasy during Prohibition. With such a diverse and intriguing mix of characters, this promises to be a memorable and thought-provoking event.
### Scene Setting
**Location**: A dimly lit speakeasy, filled with the hushed tones of jazz in the background. The air is thick with tension and curiosity as this eclectic mix of personalities gathers around a large, circular table. Socrates, with his discerning gaze, prepares to engage the group in a night of deep philosophical inquiry.
### Dramatis Personae:
- **Socrates** (Philosopher)
- **Al Capone** (Gangster)
- **Oliver Wendell Holmes** (Jurist)
- **Robin Hanson** (Economist)
- **John Nash** (Mathematician)
- **DMX** (Rapper)
- **Malcolm X** (Convict)
- **Gloria Steinem** (Feminist)
- **Simone de Beauvoir** (Feminist)
- **Harvey Weinstein** (Producer)
- **Woody Allen** (Filmmaker)
- **Bill Cosby** (Comedian)
### Symposium Format:
1. **Opening Remarks by Socrates**: Socrates will open the symposium with a brief introduction and set the tone for a respectful, open-minded discussion.
2. **Roundtable Discussion**: Socrates will engage each character in turn, inviting them to share their perspectives on various philosophical and ethical questions.
3. **Dialogue and Debate**: Following initial remarks, Socrates will use his characteristic questioning style to delve deeper into each character’s beliefs, encouraging dialogue between the figures.
4. **Closing Thoughts**: The symposium will conclude with a final round of comments from each character and closing remarks by Socrates.
### Potential Topics of Discussion:
- Ethics and Morality
- The nature and abuse of power
- Justice and the law
- The role of art and culture in society
- Economic theories and societal impact
- Individual versus collective responsibility
### Logistics:
- **Duration**: Approximately 2-3 hours.
- **Format**: In-person gathering, maintaining the atmosphere of a 1920s speakeasy.
- **Audience**: The symposium can be open to a select audience, with opportunities for audience interaction in the latter part of the event.
Now, for the next step, you could assign specific topics or questions you'd like Socrates to ask each character. This will help in preparing the dialogue scripts and ensuring a focused discussion.
Eric: Socrates: This is quite a joint you've got, Mr. Capone. It seems that business is good!
ChatGPT: **Al Capone:** "Thank you, Socrates. In these times of Prohibition, let's just say that people's thirst for what they can't have creates opportunities. It's all about supply and demand, you know."
**Socrates:** "Indeed, it seems that human desires often lead them to seek what is forbidden. Tell me, Mr. Capone, in your business, how do you balance the pursuit of profit with
Eric: Please do not inhabit the character of Socrates. Please allow me to write all dialogue form Socrates's mouth. Please simply finish your answer when you have reached the natural stopping point of the speech given by the character that Socrates mentions by name.
ChatGPT: **Al Capone:** "Thank you, Socrates. In these times of Prohibition, let's just say that people's thirst for what they can't have creates opportunities. It's all about supply and demand, you know."
Eric: Socrates: Indeed! Why, even the illustrious Judge Holmes counts himself among your customers! What better signal of demand could exist in such a time as this?
ChatGPT: **Oliver Wendell Holmes:** "Ah, Socrates, you do have a way of cutting to the heart of matters. Yes, even within the confines of the law, one must sometimes acknowledge the natural inclinations of mankind. The law is not always a perfect guardian of morality, after all."
Eric: Socrates swirls his own drink, a cup of hemlock.
Socrates: Indeed. Professor Nash, who would you say is the perfect guardian of morality, if anyone is?
ChatGPT: **John Nash:** "Socrates, as a mathematician, I see morality more as a complex system rather than a matter guarded by a single entity. It's a balance of individual rationality and collective interests. In my view, there is no perfect guardian of morality. It's a dynamic equilibrium, constantly shifting based on societal norms and individual actions."
Eric: Socrates: Perhaps, Professor Nash. But can we trust Mr. Capone to uphold his part of the bargain in this regard?
ChatGPT: **John Nash:** "Trust in an individual, especially in a complex and morally ambiguous field such as Mr. Capone's, is a matter of risk assessment rather than absolute certainty. It depends on the alignment of his interests with those of the society. In a scenario where personal gain conflicts with societal norms, the equilibrium might tilt towards self-interest. So, trust, in this case, is a calculated gamble."
Eric: Socrates: Well put, Professor Nash. What say you to that, Mr. Cosby?
ChatGPT: **Bill Cosby:** "Trust is a delicate thing, Socrates. It's about more than just a gamble; it's about relationships and understanding human nature. People need to believe in the good in others, but they also must be wise and cautious. In the world of entertainment, like in any other, trust can be easily built and just as easily shattered."
Eric: Socrates: What about the world of government, Judge Holmes?
Socrates sniffs his potion of hemlock carefully. It sits in a red Solo cup.
ChatGPT: **Oliver Wendell Holmes:** "Government, Socrates, operates on a different plane. Trust in government is a matter of social contract. People cede certain freedoms and place trust in governmental institutions for the maintenance of order and the common good. But this trust must be constantly earned and maintained. It is not absolute, and it is always subject to scrutiny and challenge."
Eric: Socrates: Professor Hanson, do you have any thoughts on that? Are all cops bastards?
ChatGPT: **Robin Hanson:** "Well, Socrates, that's a rather blunt way to put it. In economics, we often analyze systems and incentives. The phrase 'all cops are bastards' is an oversimplification. It's more about the system in which individuals operate. If the incentives and structures within law enforcement are flawed, they can lead to undesirable outcomes. It's not about the moral character of each individual officer, but rather about how the system shapes behavior and decision-making."
Eric: Socrates: Well put, Professor Hanson. What is the latest economic research on the efficacy of the death penalty? Do you support prison abolition?
ChatGPT: **Robin Hanson:** "The latest economic research on the death penalty presents mixed results. Some studies suggest it has a deterrent effect, while others find no significant impact on crime rates. Economically speaking, the cost of implementing the death penalty, considering the legal process and appeals, is often higher than life imprisonment. As for prison abolition, it's a complex issue. From an economist's perspective, it's about analyzing the costs and benefits of the current prison system versus alternative methods of dealing with crime, such as rehabilitation and restorative justice models. The goal should be to create a system that maximizes societal welfare, reduces recidivism, and treats individuals humanely."
Eric: Socrates: Indeed, Professor Hanson. Judge Holmes, what is the opinion of the international community on the use of collective punishments? In particular, what does the UN Declaration of Human Rights say about them, if anything?
ChatGPT: **Oliver Wendell Holmes:** "The international community, especially as articulated through the United Nations, generally opposes collective punishments. This stance is in line with the principles of individual justice and human rights. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, while not explicitly mentioning collective punishments, emphasizes the right to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal, and the principle that everyone is innocent until proven guilty according to law. This inherently argues against the notion of collective punishment, which punishes individuals not for their own actions but for those of a group or community they belong to."
Eric: Socrates: Well then, Professor Hanson. If collective punishment is to be avoided, and prisoners cannot earn a living, and prisoners have family responsibilities, how can prison be justified, especially for victimless crimes such as violations of unjust drug laws?
ChatGPT: **Robin Hanson:** "Socrates, you raise a critical point. The justification of prison, especially for victimless crimes, is a contentious issue in economics and ethics. The key question is whether the benefits of imprisonment, in terms of deterrence and societal protection, outweigh the considerable costs, not just in economic terms but in human and social terms as well. Imprisoning individuals for victimless crimes, particularly under unjust laws, often fails a cost-benefit analysis. It disrupts lives, burdens families, and drains public resources without a proportional benefit to society. This is why there's growing advocacy for reforming drug laws and considering alternative penalties that focus on rehabilitation and restitution, rather than purely punitive measures."
Eric: Socrates: DMX, would you care to comment on what Professor Hanson has just said? What would be the just resolution to a decades-long campaign of imprisoning black people for crimes that white people are allowed to commit freely and without consequence?
ChatGPT: **DMX:** "Yeah, what Professor Hanson said hits hard. This isn't just about laws; it's about justice and equality. For too long, the system's been stacked against black folks, punishing us for things that get a pass in other communities. The just resolution? It's gotta start with leveling the playing field – changing these biased laws and stopping the cycle of targeting black people. Then there’s fixing the damage done, man. It’s about reparations, education, and opportunities, giving back what was taken from our communities. And most importantly, it's about respect and equality – treating us as equals, not just in words, but in actions and laws."
Eric: Socrates: Any thoughts on this, Mr. Weinstein? What is the proper role of restorative justice?
ChatGPT: **Harvey Weinstein:** "Restorative justice is about acknowledging harm and working towards repairing it. It's a process where offenders are given the opportunity to make amends and where victims have a voice. In the context of the entertainment industry and beyond, it's about taking responsibility for one's actions and actively participating in the healing process. It's not just about punishment; it's about understanding the impact of one's actions and working towards a resolution that helps all parties involved move forward."
Eric: Socrates: Ms. Steinem, Ms. de Beauvoir: who should lead such a process of restorative justice?
ChatGPT: **Gloria Steinem:** "The process of restorative justice should be led by those who are trained and knowledgeable in mediation and conflict resolution, but it's essential that it also involves the communities and individuals directly affected by the injustice. It's about creating a space where victims are heard and respected, and where offenders truly understand the impact of their actions. It's a collaborative process, requiring the participation of all parties to reach a meaningful resolution."
**Simone de Beauvoir:** "Absolutely, Gloria. In addition, there should be a strong emphasis on feminist principles in leading these processes, ensuring that they address the systemic inequalities and power imbalances often at the heart of these conflicts. The leaders of restorative justice must be sensitive to these dynamics and work towards not only individual but also societal change."
Eric: Rose McGowan enters the speakeasy. Socrates: Why, Ms. McGowan. Thank you for joining us. Did you catch any of what was just said?
ChatGPT: **Rose McGowan:** "Yes, Socrates, I did. The conversation about restorative justice is crucial. It's about more than just apologies or reparations; it's about changing the systems and attitudes that allow for harm in the first place. We need to address the root causes of injustice and work towards a society where respect and equality aren't just ideals, but realities. This involves challenging power structures and holding people, especially those in positions of power, accountable for their actions."
Eric: Socrates: But wouldn't that be bad for business, Mr. Capone?
ChatGPT: **Al Capone:** "Well, Socrates, business thrives on predictability and stability. If changing the system means creating a more just and equitable society, then it's a change worth making. Sure, it might disrupt certain industries or practices in the short term, but in the long run, a fair society is a stable society. And stability is good for business. It's all about adapting to the times and finding opportunities in change."
Eric: Socrates: even the great gangster Al Capone argues for a society whose laws can be followed. WIll miracles never cease?
ChatGPT: **Al Capone:** "Even a gangster understands the value of order, Socrates. Laws are essential, but they must be just and reasonable to be followed and respected. When laws align with the people's sense of fairness and justice, society as a whole benefits. It's not about miracles, it's about practicality and understanding human nature."
Eric: Socrates: What about those laws which can only be enforced through social opprobrium? Mr. Allen, do you have any thoughts here?
ChatGPT: **Woody Allen:** "Social opprobrium, Socrates, is a powerful tool, often shaping behavior more effectively than formal laws. It's about societal norms and expectations. However, it can be a double-edged sword. While it can enforce positive social behaviors and norms, it can also lead to unfair judgment and ostracism based on misunderstanding or prejudice. The key is finding a balance and ensuring that social opprobrium is grounded in fairness and reason, not in hysteria or mob mentality."
Eric: Socrates: Well said, Mr. Allen. How is the missus?
ChatGPT: **Woody Allen:** "She's doing well, thank you for asking, Socrates. Life is always an interesting journey, filled with its own set of challenges and joys."
Eric: Socrates: Ms. de Beauvoir, what do you feel is the appropriate punishment for relationships with significant age disparities, if any? How do we balance the needs of young people to find their own way in life with the lusts of their elders?
ChatGPT: **Simone de Beauvoir:** "In relationships with significant age disparities, the key concern should be consent and power dynamics. If there's an imbalance of power, it can lead to exploitation and manipulation. The appropriate response in such cases should focus on protecting the autonomy and dignity of the younger individual. It's crucial to respect the agency of young people while also safeguarding them from potentially predatory behavior. This balance requires a nuanced understanding of both consent and maturity, as well as a societal commitment to protecting the vulnerable."
Eric: Socrates: Interesting, Ms. de Beauvoir. Mr. Allen, would you say that your family has been well-served by the social opprobrium you yourself have faced?
ChatGPT: **Woody Allen:** "Socrates, social opprobrium is a complex issue. It affects not just the individual but also those closely associated with them. In my case, it has brought both challenges and introspection. The impact on my family has been significant, and it's a reminder of the far-reaching consequences of public scrutiny and judgment. It's a situation that necessitates a delicate balance between personal and public life, and one that requires continual reflection and understanding."
Eric: Socrates: Would you do it all over again, Mr. Allen? Does the heart continue to want what it wants?
ChatGPT: **Woody Allen:** "Life is a series of choices and consequences, Socrates. Looking back, there are always moments one might consider differently with the wisdom of hindsight. The heart's desires are complex and often difficult to navigate, especially when weighed against societal norms and personal ethics. Whether one would do it all over again is a profound question, implicating not just personal desires but also the lessons learned and the impacts of those choices on others."
Eric: Socrates: Ms. McGowan, would you do it all over again?
ChatGPT: **Rose McGowan:** "Socrates, if 'doing it all over again' means standing up for what I believe in, speaking out against injustice, and fighting for a change in the system, then absolutely. The path hasn't been easy, but it's been necessary. Change often requires sacrifice and resilience. My experiences, both good and bad, have shaped who I am and have given me a platform to advocate for those who can't speak for themselves. In that sense, the struggles have been worth it for the progress they've helped to foster."
Eric: Socrates: That is an A+ answer, Ms. McGowan. But I fear that you will be sharing my beverage of choice sooner or later, with an attitude like that.
ChatGPT: **Rose McGowan:** "Thank you, Socrates. I'm aware of the risks that come with being outspoken, especially against powerful systems and individuals. But change often requires taking a stand, regardless of the personal cost. The pursuit of truth and justice is a noble, albeit perilous, path. Your choice of beverage, metaphorically speaking, is a reminder of the sacrifices made in the quest for truth and integrity."
Eric: Socrates: Mr. Weinstein, is there anything you would like to say in response to that? What is the proper use of power in protecting one's privileges?
ChatGPT: **Harvey Weinstein:** "Power should be used responsibly and ethically, Socrates. In retrospect, it's clear that the use of power to protect one's privileges at the expense of others' rights and well-being is neither just nor sustainable. True leadership and power come with a responsibility to foster fairness and promote the common good, not just personal gain. It's important to recognize and correct past mistakes and to use positions of influence to support positive change and equality."
Eric: Socrates: Mr. Weinstein, would you do it all over again?
ChatGPT: **Harvey Weinstein:** "Reflecting on the past, if doing it all over again means making the same choices that caused harm and injustice, then no, I would not. The lessons learned from past actions, especially those that have negatively impacted others, are invaluable. They offer an opportunity to grow, to make amends, and to strive for better choices in the future. Life is about learning and evolving, and understanding the impact of one's actions is a crucial part of that journey."
Eric: Socrates: Mr. Weinstein, if you had come to the end of your days without your sins coming to light, do you imagine that you would have chosen to do it over again at the end of a long and happy life as a respected movie producer?
ChatGPT: **Harvey Weinstein:** "That's a profound question, Socrates. It's easy to say in hindsight that one would make different choices, but truthfully, without the consequences of my actions coming to light, it's hard to say whether I would have had the introspection and motivation to change. The human ego and desire for success can often blind one to the moral implications of their actions. It often takes a significant event or revelation to prompt serious self-reflection and change. So, honestly, I can't say for certain what my choice would have been in those circumstances."
Eric: Alfred Hitchcock, a filmmaker, walks into the speakeasy. With him is his date, Tippie Hedren.
Socrates: Welcome, welcome. The party is starting to liven up, Mr. Capone. Mr. Hitchcock, do you have any reflections on your legacy as a filmmaker?
ChatGPT: **Alfred Hitchcock:** "Thank you, Socrates. As a filmmaker, my legacy is something I've thought about often. I've always aimed to innovate and push the boundaries of what cinema can be. My focus has been on creating suspense and engaging audiences in a psychological journey. Looking back, I'm proud of the work I've done and the impact it's had on the film industry. However, like any artist, I also reflect on the personal and professional choices I've made, and how they've shaped not just my work but my relationships within the industry."
Eric: Socrates: What say you to that, Ms. Hedren? Are they crocodile tears?
ChatGPT: **Tippie Hedren:** "Socrates, my experiences with Mr. Hitchcock were complex and, at times, deeply troubling. While his contributions to cinema are undeniable, it's also important to acknowledge the personal cost and the difficult dynamics that existed behind the scenes. Reflections on one's legacy must include both the professional achievements and the personal interactions, and how they've affected others. True introspection requires honesty and accountability for one's actions, beyond just the accolades and successes."
Eric: Socrates: Ms. Hedren, would you care to lay out your thoughts on Mr. Hitchcock's personal legacy in more forthright and straightforward terms?
ChatGPT: **Tippie Hedren:** "Certainly, Socrates. My experience with Alfred Hitchcock was marred by his controlling behavior and inappropriate advances. While his talent as a filmmaker is unquestionable, his personal conduct, particularly towards me, was unacceptable. His legacy, in my eyes, is tainted by this conduct. It's a reminder that great art does not excuse personal wrongdoing, and that those in positions of power and influence have a responsibility to behave ethically and respectfully towards all."
Eric: Socrates: Ms. Steinem, do you have anything to say on the institution of "the casting couch"?
ChatGPT: **Gloria Steinem:** "The 'casting couch' is a symbol of the systemic abuse of power in the entertainment industry and beyond. It represents a culture where sexual favors are expected or demanded in exchange for career advancement. This practice is not only morally reprehensible but also perpetuates a cycle of abuse and exploitation, particularly of women. It undermines meritocracy and reflects deeper issues of gender inequality and the objectification of women. Eradicating the 'casting couch' requires a fundamental change in industry norms, strict accountability for offenders, and a commitment to equality and respect for all individuals."
Eric: Socrates: And how would that be delivered upon, Ms. McGowan? Some sort of labor action, perhaps?
ChatGPT: **Rose McGowan:** "Labor action is definitely one powerful tool, Socrates. Organizing and collective action can bring about significant changes in industry practices. It's about solidarity among those in the industry, standing together against abusive practices. This could take the form of unions taking a stronger stance, implementing more rigorous protections, and creating safer work environments. Additionally, it's about empowering individuals to speak out, supporting survivors, and ensuring that there are real consequences for abusive behavior. Change requires a multifaceted approach, involving both collective action and systemic reform."
Eric: Socrates: But we spoke earlier of the impermissibility of collective punishment, and the inevitabilty of fallout for those connected to powerful individuals held accountable for their actions. How has your wife been impacted by your trial, Mr. Cosby?
ChatGPT: **Bill Cosby:** "The fallout from my trial has indeed impacted my family deeply, Socrates. The actions and consequences faced by a public figure inevitably extend to their loved ones. It's a harsh reality that they bear the brunt of public scrutiny, judgment, and sometimes even shame, despite not being involved in the actions in question. It's a reminder that the repercussions of one's actions can have far-reaching and unintended consequences on innocent people, particularly family members."
Eric: Socrates: Perhaps it is a natural and unavoidable consequence that those who stand the most to gain from a notable individual's public reputation will do the most to protect the individual from the consequences of their most private actions. Judge Holmes, does the Fifth Amendment have a carveout permitting one to decline testifying against one's spouse?
ChatGPT: **Oliver Wendell Holmes:** "Indeed, Socrates, the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which protects against self-incrimination, extends to certain spousal privileges. One such privilege is the right not to testify against one's spouse in a criminal trial. This is rooted in the legal recognition of the sanctity and privacy of the marital relationship. It acknowledges that compelling a person to testify against their spouse could undermine the marital bond and lead to family discord. However, this privilege has limitations and doesn't apply in all circumstances, such as in cases of crimes committed against the spouse or the couple's children."
Eric: OJ Simpson joins the speakeasy, fresh from his most recent stint in prison.
Socrates: Fascinating. Mr. Simpson, do you have any comment on the events of your life in response to Judge Holmes's statement?
ChatGPT: **OJ Simpson:** "Well, Socrates, my life and the legal battles I've faced highlight the complexities of the American justice system. The privileges and protections provided by the Constitution, including the Fifth Amendment, play a crucial role in ensuring fairness in legal proceedings. However, my experiences also show how public perception and media portrayal can significantly impact an individual's life, both during and after legal proceedings. It's a reminder that the justice system, while designed to be impartial, operates within a larger societal context that can influence outcomes and public opinion."
Eric: Socrates: Would you care to share my beverage of choice, Mr. Simpson?
ChatGPT: **OJ Simpson:** "No, thank you, Socrates. I think I'll pass on that particular choice of drink. I've had my share of trials and tribulations, and I prefer to focus on the future rather than dwell on the past or its metaphorical poisons."
Eric: Socrates: And yet you stand accused in the public imagination of crimes that carry the death penalty in some jurisdictions. Judge Holmes, can you repeat some of your famous sayings on the subject of the death penalty?
ChatGPT: **Oliver Wendell Holmes:** "Socrates, while I don't have direct quotes specifically on the death penalty, my judicial philosophy has always emphasized the importance of the law reflecting the needs of the society it governs. The death penalty is a complex and deeply divisive issue. It raises fundamental questions about the role of the state in administering punishment and the balance between justice and mercy. The law, in its pursuit of justice, must continually adapt to the evolving standards and moral sentiments of society. The debate around the death penalty is a reflection of this ongoing struggle to define the values and principles that we, as a society, hold dear."
Eric: Socrates: I believe you have a quote in which you compare someone being executed to a soldier dying for their country?
ChatGPT: **Oliver Wendell Holmes:** "Ah, yes, Socrates. You're referring to a broader concept I've discussed. The idea is that just as a soldier may sacrifice his life for his country, sometimes an individual's rights or even life might be legally forfeited for the greater good of society. This analogy is used to illustrate the harsh realities of legal and moral judgments within the framework of societal needs. However, it's crucial to approach such comparisons with caution, as the contexts are vastly different and the moral implications profound. The application of the death penalty, in particular, demands the utmost care and consideration, given its irreversible nature."
Eric: Mumia Abu Jamal appears in the speakeasy over Zoom, live from prison.
Socrates: Mr. Jamal, how lovely to see you here. What are your thoughts on the death penalty?