Open Thread, August 16-31, 2012

Related to: List of public drafts on LessWrong

Public Draft On Moral progress -- Text dump

For now this is just a text dump for relating to a conversation I had, that I retracted, not because I found them so lacking but because that particular irrationality game thread turned out to have been made by a likely troll. Expect changes in the next few days. Here is a link to the original conversation.

We have not been experiencing moral progress in the past 250 years. Moral change? Sure. I'd also be ok with calling it value drift. I talked about this previously i... (read more)

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The trend to moral progress has been one of less accepting of violence, [...] and less standing by while terrible things happen to others (or at least looking indignant at past instances of this).

I find this juxtaposition unintentionally hilarious. The reason modern society does so much looking indignant at past instances of terrible things happening to others, rather than stopping them while they are happening, is because the only way to stop them is to use violence oneself, which modern society is especially uncomfortable with.

In general this is the problem with attempting to blindly extrapolate present trends past the point where they come into conflict with other present trends.

-1MugaSofer7yYou bastard. EDIT: That's a joke, in case it's not clear.
1Multiheaded7ySome people might reasonably, and coherently, value valuing incoherent or unreachable values (in, so to say, compartmentalized good faith - that is, you might know that an algorithm is incoherent, prone to dutch-booking, etc, but it still feels just fine from the inside) - just as some people think that belief in belief might have worth of its own, are consciously hypocritical, etc. Therefore, I'm against such one-level optimizing-away of already held values; if you see that some specific value is total mess, you might instead just compartmentalize a little, etc. (I believe I've already mentioned the above to you at some point.) BTW, a classic example of people valuing an unreachable value: "Love thy enemies". (Once I had an awesome experience meditating on it.)

Open Thread, August 16-31, 2012

by OpenThreadGuy 1 min read15th Aug 2012316 comments


If it's worth saying, but not worth its own post, even in Discussion, it goes here.