Thank you for running Solstice this year, and for starting this tradition.
It's been several days, but I still don't know how I feel about it. My thoughts seem too disorganized and contradictory to fit in the feedback form, though I did try.
Emotional Arc
I watched the livestream of the 2022 Bay Solstice, and came in person to the 2024 Bay Solstice. I found them both to be really moving, each a useful call to action in their own way. You warned us that Solstice this year would be unusually dark. I took that seriously, and braced myself.
This year's solstice was difficult to bear. The middle hour was particularly painful for me, surfacing grief and anger that I thought I had processed. The uplift section at the end felt more intellectual than emotional. Ordinarily that might be a good fit for me. In context it landed like a pale imitation, weakly argued, compared to what came before.
I left 2024's solstice with a sense of defiance, spurred to do my part with righteous indignation against the laws of nature that offend my values. I left 2025's angry and sad. Depression as a service.
I recognize a lot of this is particular to me, but felt I should share the data point.
Overall I'm glad this year's version existed. I'm glad you ran this experiment, I appreciate the artistic strength and coherence. But I think it wasn't for me. I probably shouldn't come to future versions that are similarly dark, unless I'm starting from a significantly better place emotionally.
Afterparty
I found the afterparty particularly infuriating. I went looking for the decompression sessions, found Damon briefly, but didn't really find my way in. Instead I talked to people and eavesdropped on loud public conversations. I feel I got a reasonably representative sample of the crowd. Most of the people I heard from at the afterparty had not been to Solstice. Several didn't even know what it was.
The people who came only for the afterparty varied widely in motivation. One person told me they left Solstice after ten minutes because the tone wasn't for them, but came to the afterparty to discuss, which I admired. Several others knew Solstice wasn't for them but wanted to see friends who were in town--fair enough.
A vocal minority thought Solstice was dumb and cringe and came to the afterparty to mock it in person. I'm still baffled by this. It was Saturday night in one of the world's greatest cities. There were other places to be. What sort of person chooses to go to an afterparty for an event they despise? If you dislike and disrespect people trying to process emotions from this ritual, why choose to spend time with them? I don't think we should welcome those who consider that a fun evening out.
I suspect this is a growing problem with Lighthaven events.
1Did the new/updated Fooming Shoggoth songs ever get posted somewhere other than Suno? Pinging for Solstice afterparty interest this weekend. @davekasten has specific preferences about which version of these songs to play, which are difficult to fulfil.
Survey surveyed
I see. Yes, I think that mostly does.
I misread you, your paying-your-own way price is more nuanced than I had realized. I think after including things like protecting against not selling all tickets and providing some extra for subsidizing student tickets, it would be noticeably above the break-even price. I think Skyler's East Coast Megameetup provides a good case study, as of yesterday he had a "Low" price of $65, a "breakeven" price of $100, a "high" price of $120, with several additional sponsorship tiers. He defines the "breakeven" price as something like if everyone paid this and the event sells all tickets, we would break even, and the "high" price as something like if 2/3rds of participants paid High and 1/3 paid "Low", while selling all tickets, the event would breakeven. I think under your schema the "paying your own way price" is the High one ($120), or even higher to account for the risk of not selling out, not the breakeven price of $100, right?
I think yes, this does resolve at least most of our disagreement. I think it's reasonable to expect the software engineer to contribute more to public goods than the grad student. I think events count as mostly public goods (they're technically club goods, since they're somewhat rival and somewhat excludable, but there are still substantial spillover effects from events that should provide you value by binding the community together even if you don't go, so I think rounding them to public goods is close enough.) Descriptively, not endorsing, I think some in the community would expect the software engineer to pay more than $120 or $135 (building in sales risk) for the East Coast Rationalist Megameetup, unless they have some good reason to have a low willingness to pay. But your framework has a lot to recommend it, and I think could reasonably be the median expectation from the community.
I agree with Skyler that it's not reasonable to describe expecting public goods to be funded more proportionally to income as "stealing," at least not at the margins we're typically looking at in practice in the community. But it could get there! If, for instance, there was a social pressure and expectation that the richest 10 people in the community must pay for the whole event, I would describe that social pressure as immoral. I'd probably call it something like an "unjust entitlement to someone's resources", rather than stealing, but these are mainly prudential questions with fuzzy boundaries.
Separately, great point on labeling the "break-even" price explicitly. I also find that practice helpful for calibrating expectations. I forgot to do that for a recent event but I probably should have.
I agree. The gift economy framework is a useful lens to view a lot of this, in particular labor. But ticket pricing tiers are pure price discrimination, very market-shaped, and that is good. I don't think pricing is mostly about charity, I think it is mostly about distinguishing willingness to pay, enforced by social norms.
A few examples illustrate the point:
- If a rationalist software engineer making $500k doesn't enjoy Solstices but is dragged along as someone's date, I think he should reasonably pay the lowest (subsidized) price. I expect someone would raise an eyebrow at that, and then he should explain, and everyone would recognize "Ah, yes, you have a low willingness to pay for this event, this is the tier system working as intended, thank you for the information."
- If a rationalist software engineer making $500k enjoys Solstices and pays the subsidized or even the break-even rate, I predict that would probably be seen as a defection, albeit minor. Some flavors of gift economies would also see this as a defection[1], but I think the New England genteel/egalitarian gift economy that Skyler is describing would not.
- I think a key feature of gift economies is that you're actually discouraged from giving gifts "above your station". If a relatively poorer family brings a monetarily-expensive dish to the church potluck, or tries to donate too much to the annual capital fund without a good reason, this would be seen as embarrassing in some way, and actively discouraged. But if a graduate student who isn't independently wealthy really loves solstices, and chooses to pay twice the list price, I predict that would be interpreted as "wow, thank you for the vote of confidence, I'm glad you appreciate this event."
More thoughts on this in my Ticket Pricing Strategy post.
- ^
You would absolutely get a bitchy letter about this from Ashur-uballit I. See one of my favorite letters of all time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amarna_letter_EA_16
Dan, thanks, that helped diagnose the problem.
Looks like I have two separate Lighthaven Waypoint accounts associated with my email address. My work computer can only see the account that has Solstice Season access. My phone and home computer can only see the account that has LessOnline, Summer Camp, and Manifest 2025. Unsure how waypoint sorting between the two accounts, but I used my work computer to pay for Solstice Season so there must be a token or cookie somewhere.
I imagine Ray is slammed this week, I'll reach out on Intercom to try to merge or fix.
I'm seeing this too. May be an Eastern Time Zone issue?
When I first registered for the West Coast Megameetup I had access to a LessOnline-style calendar and set of bios through:
https://www.waypoint.lighthaven.space/events
However now that's no longer accessible, I'm only seeing LessOnline, Summer Camp, and Manifest from earlier this year. Reporting in case it's a bug.
I suspect there's a growing list of tech folks a few degrees of separation away from the community who've started coming to Lighthaven events. I met several people at the Solstice afterparty who did not even know that it was an afterparty for another event at all.
Followed up with DM.