OC ACXLW Meetup: What is a “cult”? Do we spawn them? — August 23, 2025
 Meeting #102

Date & time: Saturday, August 23, 2025, 2:00 p.m. (wrap ~5–6)
 Place: 1970 Port Laurent Place, Newport Beach, CA 92660
 Host: Michael Michalchik — michaelmichalchik@gmail.com — (949) 375-2045

Readings (two short pieces):

• Eileen Barker, “The cult as a social problem” (LSE working version, 2013) — https://eprints.lse.ac.uk/50874/
  
   
• Ozy Brennan, “Why Are There So Many Rationalist Cults?” (Asterisk, Aug 2025) — https://asteriskmag.com/issues/11/why-are-there-so-many-rationalist-cults
  
  AI Audio Overview: https://notebooklm.google.com/notebook/140e141e-01b5-456f-94a3-4d71905af1b8?artifactId=4b79eae4-8059-4829-b58f-d8e58be32dd2

Extra (optional): We might play the dark-humor ethics game Trial by Trolley later. Rules video: https://youtu.be/gwTEimusrhM?si=ryWMVxd8G20kaP3C

Summaries

1) Barker — “The cult as a social problem.”
 Barker argues that “cult” talk is often a construction—an image of “bad religion” set against “good/true” religion—rather than a neutral description. Social scientists therefore prefer NRM (new religious movement) to avoid smuggling in negativity. She contrasts primary constructions (what groups actually do) with secondary constructions (how outsiders, media, and opponents portray them), noting selection effects and media sensationalism. Barker reviews the anti-cult movement, the language of brainwashing/mind-control, and how these narratives can justify extreme counter-measures (e.g., deprogramming) even though most joiners resist pressure and many leave on their own. She stresses both sides can amplify deviance through hostile labeling and feedback loops, while reminding that spectacular atrocities are rare and generalization is fraught.

2) Brennan — “Why Are There So Many Rationalist Cults?”
 Brennan surveys rationalist-adjacent groups, from benign oddballs to high-demand outfits linked with harm (e.g., the “Zizians,” Black Lotus, Leverage Research), arguing that beliefs taken seriously—not just sleep deprivation or a bad leader—often drive dysfunction. Common accelerants: obsession with group psychology over real-world goals; marathon “processing” conversations; and social isolation that wrecks epistemic checks. Add consequentialist hero narratives (AGI stakes, grand meaning) and vulnerable joiners lacking a good BATNA, and you get riskier dynamics. The piece closes with practical “yellow flags” (hours-long psychology talk; one-group life; no external metrics) and hygiene recommendations (keep work/housing/therapy separate; multiple friend groups; shorter inference chains; “ethical injunctions”).

Questions (open-ended prompts)

• Term games: When does “cult” illuminate versus caricature? Try re-describing one famous “cult case” in neutral NRM language—does it change your judgment?
  
   
• Image vs. reality: In a case you know, what were the primary facts and what were the secondary portrayals? Where did media selection shape the story?
  
   
• Brainwashing debate: Is “mind control” a useful concept here, or does it obscure agency/exit rates? What language would you use instead?
  
   
• Beliefs that bite: Share an example where ideas acted like causes (for good or ill). How do you tell “taking ideas seriously” from motivated fantasy?
  
   
• Psych talk vs. world checks: Have you seen groups drift inward into endless “processing”? What external metrics (shipped code, published work, service delivered) kept you sane?
  
   
• Isolation hazard: What are your personal guardrails against epistemic bubbles (e.g., friends outside the scene, time-boxed debates, “outside view” calls)?
  
   
• Ends and means: Where would you draw ethical injunctions that “bind even when you have a clever argument”? Name one you actually use.
  
   
• Red-flag heuristics: From Brennan’s list, which “yellow flags” have you personally observed, and which were false alarms?