Glad to hear you deconverted from Mormonism, and that reading LessWrong helped. I admit, I expect you must have been close to tipping already? Like, I expect you didn’t read something on LessWrong that was an argument about religion, but that you saw ppl who care about truth (and were atheist) and this helped you to also care about truth enough to follow your existing doubts and walk away?
I am additionally curious how long after rereading LessWrong you decided to leave the church, or whether that’s something that had already happened.
Glad To Hear:
Thanks!
Close To Tipping Already:
Well, not until 2023 actually. There was a whole sequence of things that happened, too many to even list here. Then a couple moves. Then being homeless. Then trying to get moved closer to my kiddos. Then being homeless. Then, in 2024, trying to reconnect with my Mormon church in my new city even MORE drama happened.
Saw People:
The seeing people's actions wasn't good people outside the church I wanted to follow. It was the behavior of people INSIDE the church I felt the desire to distance myself from, and couldn't comprehend, and couldn't accept. I find it unacceptable for my own people to call themselves Christian, and then not act like Christ whatsoever. I'm actually exploring the African-American Pentacostal Church down the street from me right now. Not to completely convert to their way of thinking. But I'm still somewhat Christian in my thinking, testing THEM to see if their actions match their words, and to network with good people in these times of likely USA crash. I now identify as a 'Secular, Humanist Christian'. (Keep the Good Stuff. Ditch The Bad Stuff)
Walk Away:
Walk away isn't really the right term. in May - June of 2024 even to go back AT ALL to a Mormon church service, I had to mentally classify my own religion as 'Art'. My quote from then is 'You can have whichever art of Jesus up on your wall you want. You can have the Mormon Jesus, coming down from heaven with Angels blowing trumpets. You can have the Catholic Jesus, the Sagrado Corazaon De Jesucristo up on your wall. You could even have Black Jesus up on your wall if you want. My understanding about God and Christ by that point was just TOTALLY DIFFERENT than all the Mormons I met and talked to, and I had to start keeping my mouth shut, since they're nice people, and I didn't want to mess up developing friendships. My whole thought process about existence and God had become totally incompatible with what most Mormons believe deep down. I found that I had become incompatible with them, and I didn't know why.
How Long After Reading:
It's in the other order: Something that had already happened. Even to go back at all in 2024 I had to reclassify my own religion as ART not an absolute reality as I was taught growing up. (They can believe what they want, and I can believe what I want). It was fall 2024 the last time I attended a Mormon church. And it was in the last couple weeks here in July 2025 when I came back to LessWrong and realized WHY my psyche has become incompatible with absolute faith in anyone or anything.
Thanks for the reply and the questions!
Victor At Gizli
Ok, so check this out.
I'm welcoming myself back to LessWrong. This time, to become a significant post-writer, rather than a mostly-lurker.
Introduction To This Post:
Me: ~50 years old, Physically masculine individual. 4 kids, one lady, recently divorced, life-time Mormon (until recently).
Intro-Thought, The First:
I was here on LessWrong about 10 or 15 years ago, and I thank you all for this social group you've created. As my divorce after ~20 years ends my marriage, and I'm slowly recovering from it, and building a new life, I identified that I need a social group.
I need a new friends group.
And I asked myself, "what kinds of things did I USED to do, back before my life crashed?" So I have been looking for those kinds of things.
Intro-Thought, The Second:
I saw the recent news articles about LessWrong being a possible cult, and also about the new book coming out. "If Anyone Build It, Everyone Dies"
https://ifanyonebuildsit.com/?ref=nlmay14
Realization!
"Oh, yeah," I said to myself. "I used to read that LessWrong site, huh? Let's go check that out again!"
and,
"Huh? Why are people calling them a cult?!?!?"
Imagine my surprise when I skimmed through the current site and current discussion topics, and in one session of about 2 hours, I found echoes of all my current deep belief systems in my soul?
ALL.
My entire current way I examine the world around me is colored by the principles of rationality I found here on LessWrong. I ALREADY had questions about the Mormon church, and my faith in that church had survived (approximately) 10 crises of faith over my lifetime. (Some minor, some major).
But, now that I have both sets of 'source material' in front of me again (Christianity, Bible, Mormonism, on the one hand, and LessWrong on the other.), in the last few days it has become obvious that my current, deep, internal philosophies that guide me in understanding the world are what I now call 'Christianity, Mormon-Style', and 'Rationality, As Understood By The Cult At LessWrong.com'
Message From Me, To You All - LessWrong IS A Cult, But In A Good Way:
Please understand,
I speak fluent Spanish. I went on a Mormon mission to Spain after high school. My current joke is that "The Mormons sent me to teach Jesus. To. The. Catholics. As if the Catholics don't know Jesus.....' And in Spanish, the word 'cult' (, 'culta' in Spanish, pronounced KOOL-tah) has no negative connotations whatsoever. It just means, 'that other Christian church over there' . (And for the moment, no jokes about ALL Christianity being a cult, ok? Yes, I know. More details soon).
So,
When people call you guys a cult? (in the negativity, American-English sense.) It's ok.
You are.
But in a good way.
Your adherence to rationality above all other philosophies has turned out to be the reason I was able to grow and change and LOOK and actually see the reality all around me. (And let me tell you. I have found some SERIOUS coolness out there, that was technically visible all along, but I could never see it. And I guarantee a lot of it will be news to you folks too. More details soon.)
However, it was not at all compatible with the Mormonism inside me.
And, using the Jesus-style-metaphor, straight out of the bible, those two fundamental concept-seeds, (ie 'Absolute Faith In The Leaders Of The Mormon Church', and 'Rationality'), were not able to grow in the same soil. They are completely and fundamentally incompatible.
And Rationality has won out over Faith.
I consider myself to be what I call a 'Seeker Of Absolute Truth'.
I say it all the time now-days. 'I don't do faith, I do science.'
Also, "In the National Guard we used to say, 'Trust But Verify'. But NOW I say, 'The Bigger The Trust, The Bigger The Verify." And that applies to ALL leaders, including those who claim to be prophets.
And the quick summary of what has happened inside my mind/spirit/soul/psyche ever since then, very clearly in hindsight, is that it was the principles of rationality 'growing inside my soul like seeds growing in a garden' which caused my 'soul' to be incompatible with my Mormon culture.
Actually finding a group of people who ACTUALLY are looking for objective reality?
And comparing that on a daily basis with people who SAY they already HAVE objective reality/the whole truth of the whole universe...... But whose actions don't even come close to matching their stated philosophies?
Unacceptable.
In Conclusion Of This Post:
I was raised in Mormonism from childhood, and I take away MANY good things from them. However, I can now clearly see what happened. It was my solid-Mormon, genius-level brother who turned me on to LessWrong in the first place, actually! And I was confused by the fact that he let LessWrong slide, and didn't keep up with it, like I did. Now I know. He's NOT a seeker of absolute truth, like I am. Regardless of his intellect.
I now get to make jokes about my own people. Upon hearing my background in Mormonism, one of the catholic friends I made last year said, 'The Mormons do everything right..... Except their religion.' He and I both laughed. A LOT. It's nice to be able to laugh about it now. I hope to reconcile with my family some day. And, full disclosure, at the moment I believe Christ IS coming back in a biblical 'second coming' (80% likelihood only), and that the the Mormon 'prophet' (!??!?!?) Joseph Smith was a 'true prophet, who later fell from grace' (Although I've got personal investigations going that may change that). And so I allow myself to use the Mormon philosophies and techniques, while distancing myself from the Mormon Church.
However,
Have you seen that Deadpool meme?
https://tenor.com/view/deadpool-stupid-worth-it-gif-16258628881754106376
And so, in describing my horrible life-crash in 2023, and the two years of homelessnsess and suffering from then to now? Speaking of my own self, I shall quote Ryan Reynolds.....
STUPID!
STUPID!
STUPID!
STUPID!
<deep cool-guy voice - on>
Worth it.