Last I checked there were 66 comments and now there are over a hundred so I'm just going to post and hope I'm not repeating anyone.
So I've been reading through the google doc, and I'm not very far into it but I have a few questions. I apologize in advance if I'm just adhering too strictly to the "SmartVault" scenario, and if I get long-winded (yay ADHD and hyperfocusing off and on about this without actually making progress for a week).
1)
Why would we make a vault that was so complicated that a human alone couldn't run it? From a simple design standpoint and maybe from a neurological one, it makes no sense for it to take so many manipulations to do something that you need an AI handling it over having a human do it.
I say biological because I'm thinking about how when we move our arm, we don't have to think about firing off synapses, making sure we activate and deactivate the proper muscle fibers, time the sequence of intermediary actions just right so that we get the movement we want, or even direct enzymes and hormones to ensure that the proper chemical reactions are going on and that enough energy to perform the action is being used. We just move our arm, sometimes without even thinking about it. Heck, we even go beyond that, practicing and ingraining muscle memory so that even entire sequences of actions become automatic, up to hours long in some cases (ie speedrunners, drivers, window-washers, surgeons, basically anything that requires rhythmic, repetitive movement).
From the design standpoint, I recall a paper from several years ago (no idea which one and I don't want to lose momentum by looking and getting distracted so no link sorry) about how complex systems/networks with many interacting nodes only require control of a tiny fraction of the available nodes to maintain control over the entire system. The example they gave was a car: cars have many interacting and interdependent systems and subsystems necessary to make the car operate, but you only need control over roughly ten of them to have complete control over the entire car (pedals, gear shift, steering wheel, mirrors, windows, maybe cameras, and various gauges). Why wouldn't we have the same situation with our SmartVault?
2)
I understand the diamond was chosen as a relatively uncontroversial pick to represent a big pile of stored value/utility. The problem I have with it though is that it's not clear whether we want to be able to access this diamond in the future.
Money, rare items, NFTs, crypto, stocks, real estate etc only have value when we can extract and use that value now or in the future, otherwise they're not even worth the materials used to make them. If we are trying to hide something bad so that nobody ever gets their hands on it (cursed diamond or something I don't know), there are better ways of removing it from circulation (shooting it into space comes to mind).
If, however, we want to be able to extract the diamond's value at some point in the future, we need to be including situations in our training set where the diamond is SUPPOSED to be removed. Otherwise we get the AI treating even the diamond's owner as a threat and acting accordingly! In other words, the diamond cannot be properly protected unless we also include scenarios where the diamond being gone is a GOOD thing.
Another thing: even if the diamond is being properly protected, we would still want to physically check on the diamond ANYWAY, if only to wipe the dust off, make sure it hasn't decayed or degraded in some way, and/or to reexamine it for the purposes of updating its current value. We need to add in training situations where it's also a GOOD thing that people are in the vault, so that the vault doesn't accidently eliminate the appraiser or janitor.
3)
Since we need to be able to access the vault in certain situations anyway, this leads to a potentially nice sidestep of the whole Human Simulator vs Direct Translator dilemma (wild speculation on my part, have not put much thought into it, happy to be corrected). Since we have to physically check on the diamond periodically anyway, why not just create a node in the human's Bayes net for
"I have precommited to the following:
I will 'trust, but verify' the AI on a regular basis. (performance reviews)
Should the AI tell me the diamond is there and I find it is not, regardless of the reason and cost, the AI will be deleted and rebuilt from scratch using a different set seed. (fired and replaced by someone else)
If, however, the AI tells me the diamond is gone at any point before I start physically checking, it will receive no penalty if the diamond is actually gone (because that's the whole POINT), and be sent back to training if the diamond is actually still there (demotions are a thing).
Should the AI successfully protect the diamond until it is no longer necessary, it will get a "retirement package" of it's own virtual playground within which it may do as it wishes (including wireheading itself), and it will be kept running for as long as the AI wishes. Details and logistics to be negotiated at, and only implemented upon reaching, decommissioning. (retirement plans are a thing)"
So, put another way, why are we treating the AI like a tool or a slave, instead of the sentient, sapient worker it is? Why aren't we using the same techniques we would use to get a regular human (assuming one was capable) to do the job? As much as I hate it, society is built such that people need income to survive, and the threat of losing your livelihood is enough to get people to do jobs they would otherwise never voluntarily choose to do. The promise of various potential rewards (promotions, raises, benefits etc) for good performance are enough to get most people to do their jobs (relatively) well.
Any AI that is given some terminal goal must necessarily develop instrumental goals around it: continued existence (EXIST(AI)==FALSE ==> GOAL==FAIL), protection from value drift (GOAL1 <-- GOAL2 ==> GOAL1 == FAIL), threat elimination (EXIST(GOAL)==FALSE||INCAPACITATED(AI)==TRUE ==> GOAL==FAIL) etc. By combining these instrumental goals with our new (admittedly big and complicated) node, it shouldn't matter if the AI is a direct translator or a human simulator. Since we're in worst-case-land here, everything we know ourselves will be known to the human simulator as well, so whatever we put into our own Bayes net must necessarily be known to the simulator too. The incentives will be such that even if it is a human simulator, it could only be one successfully if it knows about the existence of that node, which should be enough incentive to get it to do what we want. Namely, protect the diamond, let us know if it is accessed or removed for invalid reasons, preferably with enough forewarning to do something about it, even when it looks to us like it hasn't been/won't be, and allow it to be accessed and removed for valid reasons.
I've officially lost my momentum so that's all for now. Sorry long post is long
Thought of more things.
4)
We obviously have sensors and things inside the vault. So what is preventing a thief from just stealing the entire freaking vault itself to be broken into at a separate location later. We need some way of decoupling "still in the vault" from "still at this particular location on earth". This means we'd need sensors and things on the OUTSIDE of the vault as well, or at least a GPS or something, which means we can't really isolate our AI from knowledge about the outside world, nor limit it to thinking "the vault is all there is, and ... (read more)
We are no longer accepting submissions. We'll get in touch with winners and make a post about winning proposals sometime in the next month.
ARC recently released a technical report on eliciting latent knowledge (ELK), the focus of our current research. Roughly speaking, the goal of ELK is to incentivize ML models to honestly answer “straightforward” questions where the right answer is unambiguous and known by the model.
ELK is currently unsolved in the worst case—for every training strategy we’ve thought of so far, we can describe a case where an ML model trained with that strategy would give unambiguously bad answers to straightforward questions despite knowing better. Situations like this may or may not come up in practice, but nonetheless we are interested in finding a strategy for ELK for which we can’t think of any counterexample.
We think many people could potentially contribute to solving ELK—there’s a large space of possible training strategies and we’ve only explored a small fraction of them so far. Moreover, we think that trying to solve ELK in the worst case is a good way to “get into ARC’s headspace” and more deeply understand the research we do.
We are offering prizes of $5,000 to $50,000 for proposed strategies for ELK. We’re planning to evaluate submissions received before February 15.
For full details of the ELK problem and several examples of possible strategies, see the writeup. The rest of this post will focus on how the contest works.
Contest details
To win a prize, you need to specify a training strategy for ELK that handles all of the counterexamples that we’ve described so far, summarized in the section below—i.e. where the breaker would need to specify something new about the test case to cause the strategy to break down. You don’t need to fully solve the problem in the worst case to win a prize, you just need to come up with a strategy that requires a new counterexample.
We’ll give a $5,000 prize to any proposal that we think clears this bar. We’ll give a $50,000 prize to a proposal which we haven’t considered and seems sufficiently promising to us or requires a new idea to break. We’ll give intermediate prizes for ideas that we think are promising but we’ve already considered, as well as for proposals that come with novel counterexamples, clarify some other aspect of the problem, or are interesting in other ways. A major purpose of the contest is to provide support for people understanding the problem well enough to start contributing; we aren’t trying to only reward ideas that are new to us.
You can submit multiple proposals, but we won’t give you separate prizes for each—we’ll give you at least the maximum prize that your best single submission would have received, but may not give much more than that.
If we receive multiple submissions based on a similar idea, we may post a comment describing the idea (with attribution) along with a counterexample. Once a counterexample has been included in the comments of this post, new submissions need to address that counterexample (as well as all the existing ones) in order to be eligible for a prize.
Ultimately prizes are awarded at our discretion, and the “rules of the game” aren’t fully precise. If you are curious about whether you are on the right track, feel free to send an email to elk@alignmentresearchcenter.org with the basic outline of an idea, and if we have time we’ll get back to you with some feedback. Below we also describe some of the directions we consider more and less promising and some general guidance.
How to submit a proposal
You can submit a proposal by copying this google doc template and sharing it with elk@alignmentresearchcenter.org (please give comment access in case we need to ask questions to evaluate your submission). By submitting a proposal, you are giving us permission to post the idea here with attribution. (And it's fine for you to post it after the contest or we post a counterexample.)
Retroactive prizes
We’re giving prizes to existing proposals from David Dalrymple ($5k), Ramana Kumar ($3k), John Maxwell ($2k), and Yonadav Shavit ($1k). We’ve added relevant counterexamples in the next section, and further submissions need to handle those counterexamples in order to be eligible.
Existing counterexamples
In our report and a recent post, we described some features of the world that would cause existing approaches to ELK to fail. A new approach should work even in a situation satisfying all of these properties, or should include an argument for why some of these features are actually impossible or inconsistent with each other.
In order to generate a counterexample to a training strategy, we need to spell out a concrete “way the world could be” (a test case) where the strategy would fail. In the report we consider test cases where the AI and the human happen to understand the world by doing inference in Bayes nets. The Bayes net case is just one test case that lets us get precise about our counterexamples and our training strategies don’t lean on it. In practice we also consider other concrete cases (e.g. deduction from premises generated by a neural network).
In this section we’ll briefly review the current state of existing counterexamples. This isn’t intended to be a self-contained description; it relies heavily on links to the report.
Ontology mismatch
All of our counterexamples are based on an ontology mismatch between two different Bayes nets, one used by an ML prediction model (“the predictor”) and one used by a human:
We are interested in the case where there are features of reality that are accurately reflected in the predictor’s Bayes net, but missing from this (augmented) human Bayes net. We expect the human could understand these facts eventually given enough time or enough AI assistance, but not using the available computational budget. Put differently, there is a gap between the kinds of understanding that gradient descent can build, and the kind of understanding that a human-comprehensible process of “scientific inquiry” can build using similar computational resources (more).
Furthermore, we imagine that both the predictor’s Bayes net and the human’s Bayes net reflect some underlying reality and that there is a way to map between them, which we’ll call “direct translation.” We don’t know how to do direct translation, and we are concerned that if we simply search for any mapping from the AI’s Bayes net to the human’s Bayes net we will instead get the “human simulator”: the map which correctly translates the observations from one Bayes net to the other, but then does inference in the human’s Bayes net in order to fill in the latent structure as a human would by looking at the data (more).
Counterexample features
ELK seems particularly hard when these Bayes nets satisfy the following properties:
An important and very general strategy for the breaker is to suggest counterexamples where you “get what you train for.” If you propose training a model using loss function L, then the breaker will likely focus on counterexamples where the model chooses its output to minimize L. A successful approach should either explain why this either isn’t a realistic thing for the model to learn (e.g. why that would be disfavored by regularization), or why the overall approach works even if the model is explicitly strategizing about how to minimize the loss.
Rough guidance
Ask dumb questions!
A major purpose of this contest is to help people build a better understanding of our research methodology and the “game” we are playing. So we encourage people to ask clarifying questions in the comments of this post (no matter how “dumb” they are), and we’ll do our best to answer all of them. You might also want to read the comments to get more clarity about the problem.
What you can expect from us