4thWayWastrel

"This machine resists Moloch"

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Help! What do I say at my wedding?

From memory the first part was something Richard Bartlett tweeted, the second was my addendum ๐Ÿ˜„.

Glad you liked them ๐Ÿ˜Š

Help! What do I say at my wedding?

I'm tipsy and on a train, so I shall help you

sit down at a computer
open a blank document

call to mind your beloved
bring into your heart the way they make you feel

and then just type a stream of conciousness
tell the bouncer of your mind to take a break
and just type words, they don't have to make any sense at all
and just keep going

if you follow that vein down, you'll strike on high-minded sentiments worth sharing at a wedding

Expertps from things I've squiriled away under "marriage and relationships" that might be relevant to others

  • "loving someone is creating a context for their growth, fostering a deep well of reciprocal good will"
  • https://xkcd.com/2386/
  • "Relationship advice from my wise nonna. Deeply in love with husband for 60 years. After he came back from the war he was suffering from PTSD, he needed a lot of support. But she knew that they still had shared values and dreams, and she clung on to that, and nursed him back to health. This shows we can connect with people at a deeper level, not just the surface behaviour.
  • https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/PySEyxTKh5hzDeK9y/my-marriage-vows
  • "I swear
    Whatever aid you ask of me, I shall render it
    Whoever you ask me to be, I shall endeavour to become"
  • "this seems very new to you
    but seeing someone you like and building a life with them is as old as the seasons changing
    humans arn't as good at it as we used to be, because we need each other less
    but this hides the fact that we still desperately need other people, people who will be close with us
    your branches have intertwined, and if you're brave and determined they will grow
    you will grow so tall, and so vast, and the branches of your love will hold so much
    they will hold your long lives, they will hold the lives of your children the lives of your friends"
Thought experiment: Imagine you were assigned to help a random person in your community become as peaceful and joyful as the most peaceful and joyful person you'd ever met. What would you try?

Links I've been collecting for when I get around to trying to ansewr this question for myself:

* "MDMA Solo" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25974701

* https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19997984

* https://sashachapin.substack.com/p/how-i-attained-persistent-self-love

* https://twitter.com/m_ashcroft/status/1486398240643760133

* https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/ZbgCx2ntD5eu8Cno9/how-to-be-happy

* https://www.lesswrong.com/tag/well-being

* https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/tEDXpFgsHsm5T8sWz/app-and-book-recommendations-for-people-who-want-to-be

* that alicorn luminosity sequence

* https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/BfTW9jmDzujYkhjAb/you-are-probably-underestimating-how-good-self-love-can-be

* https://kajsotala.fi/2017/07/how-i-found-fixed-the-root-problem-behind-my-depression-and-anxiety-after-20-years/

* https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/j3QDAqSQFi4BpHxQK/a-guide-for-productivity-2

* https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/iYR9hKzTKGhZwTPWK/meaningful-rest

* https://alexvermeer.com/life-hacking/

* https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/WLSJHJzRjLjRuQ3us/how-feeling-more-secure-feels-different-than-i-expected

https://qualiacomputing.com/2021/04/04/* buddhist-annealing-wireheading-done-right-with-the-seven-factors-of-awakening/

* https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/i2Q3DTsQq9THhFEgR/introducing-effective-self-help

Godshatter Versus Legibility: A Fundamentally Different Approach To AI Alignment

I've been thinking about this notion a great deal thanks so much for posting! I also have an intuition towards that which is good being non-arbitrary, akin to pi or gravity.

This gives me hope on how AGI might play out, but I'm aware we can't be certain this is the case until we have a proven theory of value a la the symetry theory of valence, and maybe even then we couldn't be sure any sufficiently capable mind would be exposed to the same dynamics humans are.

Consciousness Mini-Survey Results

re the first question I assumed it was asking "what are you symathetic to" rather than "what is", more than any particular view I'm dubious of anyone who's feels 100% confident in their view on the nature of conciousness 

Experimenting with microsolidarity crews

Thank you, I thought so too ๐Ÿ˜Š

And yeah, case clinics have given me a lot of value. If something like it is emerging naturally amoung your friends, then they sound like great friends!

If you do try to expressly instantiate a case clinic with the steps I'd be curious to hear how it goes. I've been surprised at the effect setting an explicit format can have on how it feels to be in a group. Something about creating common knowledge on where we're all supposed to be directing our attention (and with what intention), can be really powerful. Thinking about it now I suppose this is how DnD works ๐Ÿ˜„

Experimenting with microsolidarity crews

ha don't worry it basically is ๐Ÿ˜„, it's just that (for me at least) the notion I could put effort into making strong 1-1 connections with people and forming intimate small groups online wasn't really something that occurred to me to do before I started reading about microsolidarity.

May also be worth noting that the microsolidarity framework is about a bunch of other stuff beyond just crews and case clinics, notably dynamics that come into play once you try to take a bunch of crews and form a larger group of ~150 or so people out of them.

In Defense of Attempting Hard Things, and my story of the Leverage ecosystem

I agree with the content of your comment but the framing gives me a sense of bad faith, and makes me uncomfortable.

If I put a lot of time into a post-mortem detailing how an 8 year project I put a lot into went wrong, and then the top comment was someone summing up what I'd done in an uncharitable paragraph saying things like "making stuff up" and "no shit sherlock" I'd feel like I'd tried to do a good thing for the discourse at large and was defected against.

In Defense of Attempting Hard Things, and my story of the Leverage ecosystem

To echo others, thank you for putting your time and effort into this, I found it coherent and valuable. As an international rat/EA who's only context for Leverage was Zoe's post, this fleshed out my understanding of what you were trying to do in a helpful way and gave me a lot to chew on regarding my own thoughts on ideological communities.

Regarding: "Why do people seem to hate us?"

After reading Zoe's post I had a very negative view of Leverage and Geoff, after some introspection here is my best guess as to why.

Growing up religious, I'm very aware that my individuality can be radically subordinated by:

  1. Potent ideas
  2. Potent community

And when those two are mixed in the form of ideological communities it's powerful and it's intoxicating. And like most intoxicating and powerful things, there is a great potential for harm. Thus whenever I find myself moving in a group of people high on ideas and connection, there's a voice in the back of my mind constantly asking.

Is this a cult yet?
Is this a cult yet?
Is this a cult yet?

This is a voice I know for a fact is speaking in the back of several EAs and rationalists I know personally. And I'd be shocked if anyone who's had a brush with the failure modes of ideological community and finds themsevles in a reading group for The Precipice isn't thinking that to themselves.

So when I read of an insular group in the memeplex I call home getting high on ideas and each-other, and then started talking about "magic" and "demons" my strong reaction was of fear. It's happening, kill it with fire before it spreads and ruins everything.

I'm currently agnostic on whether leveraging the power of potent community and ideas is something that can be channeled safely, but I don't blame you guys for trying; and I recognise that my initial reactions to the topic of Leverage and Geoff Anders were mixed up in with a non-trivial amount of counter productive fear.

Counting Lightning

It gave me an emotional intuition for what more progress along the "distance from violence" scale might look like. If we don't even have to pull the trigger anymore and can be assured no unintended casualties, maybe it's more pressure towards the equilibrium of the state relying on violence to govern, and then to suppress the dissent that violence generates with more violence.

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