deluks917's Comments

We run the Center for Applied Rationality, AMA

I would have a lot of trust in a vote. I seriously doubt we as a community would agree on a set of knower I would trust. Also some similar ideas have been tried and went horribly in at least some cases (ex the alumni dispute resolution council system). It is much harder for bad actors to subvert a vote than to subvert a small number of people.

We tend to forget complicated things

It is commonly claimed that if you make it to 'level N' in your mathematics education you will only remember level n - 1 or level n-2 longterm. Obviously there is no canonical way to split knowlege into levels. But one could imagine a chain like:

1) Algebra

2) Calculus (think AP calc in the USA)

3) Linear Algebra and Multi-variable Calculus

4) Basic 'Analysis' (roughly proofs of things in Calculus)

5) Measure Theory

6) Advanced Analysis topic X (ex Evan's Partial Differential Equations)

This theory roughly fits my experience.

Drive-By Low-Effort Criticism

I don't think Qiaochu's comment is particularly low effort. He has been Berkeley for a long time and spoke about his experiences. Given that he shared his google doc with some people, the comment was probably constructive on net. Though I don't think it was constructive to the conversation on lesswrong.

If someone posts a detailed thread describing how they want to do X, maybe people should hold off on posting 'actually trying to do X is a bad idea'. Sometimes the negative comments are right. But lesswrong seems to have gone way too far in the direction of naysaying. As you point out, the top comments are often negative on even high effort posts by highly regarded community members. This is a big problem.

LW authors: How many clusters of norms do you (personally) want?

I would post much more on lesswrong if there was a 'no nitpicking' norm available.

(re-posted as a top level comment at Ray's request)

LW authors: How many clusters of norms do you (personally) want?

I would post much more on lesswrong if there was a 'no nitpicking' norm available.

"Rationalizing" and "Sitting Bolt Upright in Alarm."

Lying about what? It is certainly common to blatantly lie when you want to cancel plans or decline an invitation. Some people think there should be social repurcussions for these lies. But imo these sorts of lies are, by default, socially acceptable.

There are complicated incentives around punishing deliberate manipulations and deception much harder than motivatated/unconcious manipulation and deception. In particular you are punishing people for being self aware. You can interpret 'The Elephant in the Brain' as record of the myriad ways people in somewhat, or more than somewhat, manipulative behavior. Motivated reasoning is endemic. A huge amount of behavior is largely motivated by local 'monkey politics' and status games. Learning about rationality might make a suffiently open minded and intelectually honest person aware of what they are often doing. But its not going to make them stop doing these things.

Imagine that people on average engage in 120 units of deception. 20 units of concious deception and 100 units of unconcious. People who take the self awareness pill engage in 40 units of concious deception and 0 units of unconcious deception. The later group engage in much less deception but they engage in twice as much 'deliberate' deception.

I have two main conclusions. First, I think seeing people, and yourself, clearly requires an increased tolerance for certain kinds of bad behavior. People are not very honest but cooperation is empirically possible. Ray commented this below: "If someone consciously lies* to me, it's generally because there is no part of them that thinks it was important enough to cooperate with me". I think that Ray's comment is false. Secondly I think its bad to penalize 'deliberate' bad behavior so much more heavily. What is the point of penalizing deception? Presumably much of the point is to preserve the group's ability to reason. Motivated reasoning and other forms of non-deleiberate deception and manipulation are arguably at least as serious a problem as blatant lies.

Explaining "The Crackpot Bet"

Even if Glenn is having a mental breakdown letting him continue to spam people on various forums is not helping him. In particular because he is currently burning a ton of social capital and cultivting a very negative reputation. At least he needs to take a break from public posting.

Discourse Norms: Moderators Must Not Bully

I think you should explain in substantially more detail why you think communities should do the opposite of following Eliezer's advice.

Why the empirical results of the Traveller’s Dilemma deviate strongly away from the Nash Equilibrium and seems to be close to the social optimum?

If you bid 2$ you get at most 4$. If you bid 100$ you have a decent chance to get much more. If even 10% of people big ~100 and everyone else bids two you are better off bidding 100. Even in a 5% 100$ / 95% 2$ the two strategies ahve a similar expected value. In order for bidding 2$ to be a good strategy you have to assume almost everyone else will bid 2$.

The Amish, and Strategic Norms around Technology

If you can consistently get to work late enough I think the best time to go to sleep is around 1am. 1am is late enough you can be out until midnight and still have an hour to get home and go to sleep on time. Even if you are out very late and only get to bed by 2am you are only down an hour of sleep if you maintain your wakeup time. There is occasional social pressure to hang out substnatially past midnight but it is pretty rare.

For these reasons I go to bed at 1am and get up at 9am. Of course I don't have to be at work until 10am. But if you can make this work its great to have a sleep schedule you can hold to without sacrafices socialization.

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