• Annie Altman (20:32): they did, you know, when I did the vegan game intensely, I get also triggered or just sort of write off people. That's one of people's favorite things to poke vegans about of like, well, plants have feelings too. Like, it's not just the animal, and I'm always like, yeah, Consciousness to me I see sort of as a spectrum like you were talking about what is
• Annie Altman (23:00): I figured out how to human more than you write. Other human, I'm more conscious. I'm more woke, right? I like that idea. A lot of is it about something about it? Is it something that brings us closer towards the unity? Or that separates people? Hmm more. Yeah. And that weaponizing Consciousness is a Are people using? This is religion just to. Yeah, right people or how can we Use consciousnesses. Say tools. Instead, totally remind us that none of us know we're doing. Yeah, none of us know the truth here.
• Annie Altman (24:11): That is the point of just helping other people wake up more and that's how we help ourselves to wake up more by connecting with other people by helping other people. 🟡That's I mean a huge. If not all of my motivation for this podcast is, let me learn from people's perspectives. So I can learn more about my own perspective and figure out how things feel to me. Through hearing about how things feel to other people🟡
• Annie Altman (25:36): right? Thank you. I appreciate that reflection a lot. Yeah. Food is a great example of this that we were talking about before two of their is not one diet. There's not one way of eating that works for everyone and all. So for each person, there's probably not one way of eating that's gonna work their whole life. And how to entertain the possibilities of being curious about how different it is for people and how different it's gonna be for ourselves rather than categorizing. And for me, it definitely came from a lot of very strict black and white categorization and very like with the god word and write pretty much just as soon as someone said the god word, I'd be like, all right, I'm done. Listening to anything. You say, like, you can keep talking, I'm just not gonna press and then I missed out on a whole demographic. People to learn from That's that's a silly. That's a silly practice. This is a really big issue in our country right now,
• Annie Altman (27:18): to Duality again, the part isn't just having two parties that Define each other based on the other party. It's not working out long term either. I would love to use the triggering as the shift sort of to question of, Where Consciousness originates in this idea that? Hmm, least in the Neuroscience community of Consciousness originates in the brain, right? Whereas 🟡for me the feeling of triggered It's a very physical feeling🟡 and there are about it.
• Annie Altman (27:52): there's all sorts of Neuroscience just now accepting like wait a minute. We're not just floating heads here. We have this whole body that is communicating to us with 🟡sweating, with our hair Rising, with our heart rate, changing with our breathing changing.🟡 And so in so much experience, you've done with body work, that's such a cool perspective to me of being aware of What your body's communicating I'm guessing that. Well, I'm not guessing we talked about of, you know, Consciousness in every cell with something. You said that really stuck with me that I loved and I'm not even sure what my specifically.
• Annie Altman (37:33): Whoa. Well, this is to go to combining consciousness of our mind and our fascia and our gut that in some ways. That's yeah, he's combining he's or even like a few saying, you know, bring your attention to your thigh. Yeah, it's saying. Okay, 🟡how can I connect that brain word talking to myself Consciousness, to This tangible physical part of me🟡 that is ironically and not coincidentally also literally connected and yes all the same, all the same thing. Yeah. That is Ludacris in the best way that he healed his fine. Like
• Annie Altman (38:41): 🟡I love using the word, remember there? I mean, that's a one. That's a word that comes up to me a lot with Consciousness and awareness is remembering and that idea of the yoga cliche that is cliche for being true that your answers are in you already. And it's seeking him out and finding them an remembering. And having other people help us. Remember. And helping other people remember.🟡 And totally,
• Annie Altman (39:25): Totally and then go back to 🟡triggers🟡. I find for me often that when I'm triggered by something more often than not. It's because there's some truth in there. Oh yeah, there's there's something that is Not only a lesson that there's something in there that I'm resisting all often, we don't want more. Yeah, dang, I'm triggered. Okay, like let's sit with this. Like what am I for sure. What am I avoiding here? What is yes. 🟡Why did that make my heart rate go up?🟡 Yeah. Or like why did I suddenly start slouching about this
• Annie Altman (52:33): awakened by sure by knowing about your body then I can get into the Dogma again of food things or of people saying this exercise is better than that exercise or Or judgments and I definitely still like things will come up in me of like, oh there, you know they're more flexible in this way or they're stronger in this way or that way. And then that must mean this or that must mean that and It's a yes, and like, they're to an extent. Our body's are telling a story and expressing their history and things we've done and then to an extent, they're just are, you know, some someone could practice yoga for years before being able to do the splits. Someone could be able to or Netflix or not. Yeah. And you know, anatomically. her body is in, this is why body work is so fascinating to me of how to personalize, I guess the journey for each body of coming into its own personal Consciousness, because That feeling of okay, bring your awareness to your left, big toe.
• Annie Altman (58:33): love his stuff. Yeah, it's amazing that To me epigenetics prove as much as anything can prove Collective Consciousness that 🟡we have feeling, we have memories stored in our body in ways that we have no idea about.🟡 So yeah it is not I I get a kick out of Like, when I'll hear people talk about their first experience, crying in a yoga pose, right? And I'm like, I love you. And it's a yes and like, You're special and 🟡everybody's cried in Pigeon pose🟡. If you, if you've done, there's like a certain threshold of the number of times you've done pigeon pose that you've cried and that Maybe that's something that happened to earlier that. I am pigeon because there's nothing wrong
• Annie Altman (59:51): feelings are Stored in different parts for the body. And in a different ways and in a different people. And so pigeon pose is the one I use is the example, because hips. And that's that's the most common one. I've heard people crying
• Annie Altman (1:00:10): Maybe for me feeling like oh less of a weirdo or less different or less, whatever it can be helpful of like, oh yeah, that's a quote normal. Human thing to have that experience. Yeah, shape. then that's a great point, that People are gonna have different experiences or have similar experiences come up. Different shapes and yeah. Totally just a ramble of the benefits of yoga and exploring, but you're talking about Abby genetics where you have the body holding story. Yes, thank you. Yeah.
• Annie Altman (1:01:20): That will never know about. Yeah. And much like being a human and we're all just sort of winging it. Yeah. We're all just winging these big questions and maybe. Yeah, maybe that is the purpose as much as that irks. A part of me to not have more of a black and white answer. That the purpose is just Is what oh yeah, I feel like the moment. This is the moment, okay? That the answer is to just keep asking questions and keep exploring about. About all of this. And and this is feeling that I'm I'm a very scientific person and also a very feeling space person. And to me it's because feelings are huge part of our Consciousness and our awareness of it. And taping into Whatever Collective Consciousness is or feels like for sure. Is here to do
• Annie Altman (1:08:12): all of these rules. Yeah. As they each gotten sort of less rule oriented, which is definitely me. Projecting a lot of my own Consciousness journey of letting go of rules and very rigid boundaries and yeah categorization totally do I relate.
• Annie Altman (1:12:41): And any human connection even like the conversation with someone else or yeah, sex is a super fascinating one because then that brings up touch. And connection. And Feelings being stored in your body and then well, it's also
• Annie Altman (1:15:10): I think you for turning the question, I think I would say something along the lines of Consciousness is a physical, emotional and spiritual practice. and, or Consciousness is both personal and Collective. Getting into sort of what you were saying about how do we practice? Knowing ourselves and being true to ourselves and the feelings that are coming up in our own body. and The Duality of I'm connected to everyone. I'm talking to and everything around me and these things that go into my body food sex. The words that we consume the videos that we consume that then becomes me.
• Annie Altman (1:16:09): 🟡How do I Navigate both being my own separate entity🟡 and being connected to everything. And how can also how can those both exist at the same time, right? That I can. Move tangibly. 🟡Like there is a point where I stopped physically.🟡
• Annie Altman (1:16:31): and, To pull up epigenetics once again. That's a bullshit Theory to say that I'm just that 🟡I am only in this space of this body.🟡 

• "Two months ago I met with Joe K, the owner of Urban Exhale Hot Yoga, to discuss the podcast episode we were going to record together. (I have since recorded podcasts with four other teachers at the studio and am completely unsure how to express my gratitude to Joe — honestly perhaps less words about it?) While I would be the one asking Joe questions on the podcast, he had an important question for me. With all the casual profundity of a yoga teacher, Joe asked, “what is your earliest memory?”
• "Without pause for an inhale I responded, “probably a panic attack.” I feel like Joe did his best asana poker face, based on projecting my own insecurities and/or the hyper-vigilant observance that comes with anxiety."
• "I began having panic attacks at a young age. I felt the impending doom of death before I had any concept of death. (Do I really have any concept of death now, though? Does anyone??) I define panic attacks as feeling “too alive,” like diving off the deep end into awareness of existence without any proper scuba gear or knowledge of free diving. Panic attacks, I’ve learned, come like an ambulance flashing lights and blaring a siren indicating that my mind and my body are… experiencing a missed connection in terms of communication — they’re refusing to listen to each other. More accurately: my mind is disregarding the messages from my body, convinced she can think her way through feelings, and so my body goes into panic mode like she’s on strike."
• "I went to a sound bath at the yoga studio about a month ago, the second sound bath I’ve ever attended. (I cried at both and if you know me you know that I am happy about things that help me cry.) Sound baths are a guided meditation where you lay in corpse pose and receive sounds of specific frequencies, allowing vibrations to “wash” over and through you. Some shit is bound to surface in the tides."
• "My dad died five months ago now, and to say I’ve learned a lot is an enormous understatement. I was and am a “daddy’s girl.” The most recent panic attack, and perhaps darkest one I’ve experienced, happened the week he died. My dad was one of the most genuinely positive people I’ve ever come across. He had an incredible capacity to continually focus on the light, the good, what was “right” in any situation. I felt his presence during parts of the sound bath — a concept past me would have rolled her eyes about."
• "Laying in bed later that night, Joe’s question popped back into my consciousness with a kind “please make your way into child’s pose.” I realized I had deceived myself (classic humaning) with my response to his question, “what is your earliest memory?”
• "Joe, and whoever is reading, I would like to formally change my answer. I am also without an exact answer. I am non-sarcastically “trusting the process” to potentially receive one. I know that a panic attack is not my answer, and my ego likes to remind itself that knowing what is not my truth leads me at least somewhat closer to said truth.""
• "I can reflect on and connect with feelings of panic and still have space to choose a positive perspective. Searching for ways to cope with existence has lead me to yoga, dance, singing, ukulele, cooking, baking, writing… to asking all the questions I know to ask so that I can open myself up to knowing just how many more questions life has to offer. Without panic attacks, I may have lived my whole life without starting a YouTube channel, a podcast, or this blog."
• "Emotions come and go, so it keeps seeming. Emotions and memory are directly linked, re: the amygdala. I have little to no control over my emotional response; I do have control over my reaction and subsequent actions."
• "I write my own history. Though TBD on the first memory of that history. Here’s to exploring."

• Annie Altman (6:56): Impact. Absolutely. And lots of layers within each person. I always like to joke about our own mind body. Communication. And the two of us each having our own mind body Communications that are communicating and then I love that you brought up someone listening as well and their own mind body communication as they're listening. And then perhaps if someone messages me about it and gives me feedback on the podcast and questions they like or don't like or topics, they would want to hear about and that sort of communication. And we also that reminds me of talking about communication. You mentioned the person who put us in contact and how, when you were starting out, he was someone who would communicate with you about? Hey, I like this. This is fun to listen to keep going. Keep communicating.
• Annie Altman (25:54): Wow. That's so beautiful. The podcast comes part of the healing process. I completely resonate with that. This is been A huge part of my own healing process of accepting that. There's no true shit and practicing communication and learning from people.
• Annie Altman (28:05): Yeah, really listening mine and openly rather than putting all your getting so caught up in the ritual of whatever your life is in your perspective. That You don't take on their perspective and really listen to what they're saying. Experience that with watching videos of things. like YouTube videos are a great example of things where I'll watch and depending on my own sort of state of mind. I'll project whatever onto that video and then I'll step back you're like wait, this is your own bullshit like isn't about whatever that person is or what they're doing or this is you not listening and that doesn't mean okay, you know, I'm gonna be friends with everyone and watch every video and that sort of that and that's sort of thing is much as Really removing. To get to go psychology terms. Removing my ego, To really listen to them and part of removing the ego being accepting that the ego is there. And that it's not fully removable ever that I do have my own bias and perspective How can I How can I let go of enough of that? To really Truly consume, whatever, I'm consuming. Well holding onto myself which I think is the ego protection of it.
• Annie Altman (29:51): Hmm, it does not seem like it in my 24 years of experience. It does not seem like it. The expansion of more people being able to put themselves, put their Express their feelings and put that out there and then they're being more. Well, in some ways people like, oh, it's over saturated. In a lot of ways. Also, there's just so much more content available for people to consume other people expressing their feelings so that they can then feel and express their feelings. 🟡It always comes back to feeling with me. It seems too. Yeah, seems too. Because of feelings to me are our mind body-communication.🟡
• Annie Altman (38:29): Yeah, that's definitely been. And is important for me to I like to say, I'm a really goofy serious person. And part of what I love about comedy is that And laughter in general. Is it helps me take life less seriously.
• Annie Altman (39:38): Those are beautiful words. I yeah, I have gotten significantly less serious and the less serious. I get the more seriousness I see. To be less serious about in me. Which is awesome part of the podcast, practice for me.
• Annie Altman (40:38): Yeah. Oh yeah. and remember, it's Sometimes I'll joke with I'll use the Everybody Poops, The book of everyone's going through the same shit to go literal on shit. Everybody's a human, they're all going through their own human being. this is one of my favorite topics of things because to me it's sort of a logical proof of Spirituality of interconnection of being kind to people. Is that we're all humans. We're all going through something we're all dealing with our mind body communication that we can only really experienced and then Express through podcasts and music and writing and attempt to learn a little bit more about that and help other people learn about theirs. and then also let go of that seriousness of what is the lesson here and what is the meaning and enjoy that where in a body that we have a mind that we can express ourselves and our feelings and Over here.
• Annie Altman (43:02): I appreciate you bringing that up. It is. It's true. It's Often I feel like getting going is easier or going is easier than getting going. And that people will talk about oh I want to start a YouTube channel and I want to start putting music on SoundCloud, I want to whatever and It sounds in words. So simple of going from saying to doing. And a lot of times people take a long time to do. And I found that in my experience, too, and I found like what you were saying earlier about, you know, it feels better when you do put out a podcast that it feels really good to do the things I say, I want to do and to put something out and to know that I can share something without it being perfect for me. It's the perfectionism that comes up. Usually that blocks me, from sharing something. And that I'm gonna offend someone or hurt their feelings and some way. This isn't perfect for everyone to receive and it's also makes me think of the brene brown. TED talks on vulnerability and just general the courage to show up and put part of yourself out there to express and communicate some part of you for other people to have. Whatever sort of response to it, that they're going to have.
• Annie Altman (45:38): definitely, there's a brene brown line of if you're not in the arena, you can't criticize people in the arena or I believe maybe it's the opposite. If you're in the arena don't listen to criticism from people out of the Arena. Not putting themselves out there too. It's sad to think about people feeling. Sort of Trapped in their own mind body communication, and not feeling. Worthy. I'll say of sharing their thoughts and feelings with the world however they want to. Maybe that's assuming though that more people do think everyone has some part of themselves they want to share or am I projecting that of my own?

• Annie Altman (5:58): done. That was totally my perception. I was just exposed to I had my first sound bath, maybe a year and a half ago now, so I'm just know. It was in
• Lauren Waggoner (6:11): Hawaii. Yeah
• Annie Altman (6:12): that was during good memory. That was during my yoga teacher training. and, I had no idea what I was getting into when I was still in. There. Very rigid. Science. Mine. And so I was like, a sound bath water. Like what is this nonsense?
• Lauren Waggoner (6:30): Yeah,
• Annie Altman (6:30): went bawled like Sobbed. Slept like a baby as he said and I was just like, what? The what like what is this? What just happened to really? And people. Will talk about, you know, aromatherapy and other senses and physical therapy, and sound and vibrations are seems like. And maybe this is because we're sitting here talking about it. It seems to me. Like, it's the one that's sort of coming into
• Annie Altman (10:22): in a sound bath and in any meditative practice that's doing less, it's letting go and especially in sound bath of Laying and being guided through meditation and just a very long corspe pose, yeah, with sounds to help you. For my two experiences to help you stay there.
• Lauren Waggoner (10:41): Mm-hmm.
• Annie Altman (10:43): And help you clean off all of those filters and all of those layers. And,
• Annie Altman (18:34): yeah, something with more excited and The more I've slowly experienced it. The more like even as you were saying that I was like, yeah. And what about taste and like different tastes coming, right? And I felt these things before and our body really gives us so much information.
• Annie Altman (27:19): 🟠🟠I used to be really sensitive to sirens when I was really little. I was one of those kids who would cry. I would get Dressed. I would get really worked up. I would plug my ears. It would take me a while to let go of it🟠🟠 when I would just get, so caught in. Oh my gosh, there's someone who's in trouble. Someone's house is burning.
• Guest: Oh yes, associations with the sound.
• Annie Altman (27:43): Exactly. Yeah, and putting it all those associations of it rather than Let's get curious,
• Lauren Waggoner (27:50): the present reality. Yeah.
• Annie Altman (27:52): Rather than the present reality, and there's a time and place for yes, Sirens are associated with these things. They're, this is a fire truck going somewhere. There's probably someone stuck somewhere. There's a fire. There is a whatever.
• Annie Altman (33:53): with silence. And I really can tangibly feel those feelings after concert after really loud music. The silence is so loud and it's amazing. And it really is a big part of it. It reminds me in terms of our breath, the pause in between the inhale and exhale and how often I know I can forget about the pause and just I'm aware, I'm inhaling. I'm aware, I'm exhaling and you're also. There's a pause there? Yeah, be aware of too. And I wrote down, I loved the, there's no real silence. That's there's, I'm gonna be chewing on that one. Yeah. Why is well or hearing or not hearing, or whatever words of, Your heart is beating your, your breath is making some noise. And we could go into all sorts of biological and spiritual things of your. Your blood is still pumping. Your there's
• Annie Altman (39:11): those like my past self who get very stuck on the science. The science is showing that there's a lot to explore here. So why not explore them in the present and just enjoy how it
• Annie Altman (53:36): Yeah, it's you've got a lot to share about it and you've it's to again, sound in ways that Passed me would, would scoff at in a way currently loves that past three would scoff about, I can feel in my own vibrational all of the things in my emotions. The experiential knowledge, your emotions have had in this too. And how valuable that is of having felt that feeling State before.

• Annie Altman (14:02): terrible is another Judgment of things of just I know in my tendency of wanting to rank and categorize things they do. That it can be comforting to act like I can compare and look at some outward things. And then no more feel like I know more that I am more worthy to me. That's another form of me taking things personally, interesting. Because like I'm making it about someone else. Something else? Yeah. Outside of myself rather than This is all about me and I like that you bring up Cockiness, like she's about a confidence and I'm gonna bring up Cockiness because as soon as I say, it's all about me, it makes me think, right? They Cockiness and I get very insecure about coming off as egotistical and like, I'm putting someone else down like I'm acting like, I'm better than
• Annie Altman (15:34): short. Thank you for asking me to. This is another one of my life, philosophies, everyone's a hypocrite. And I learned this by my perfectionist. Like I must always have all of my actions aligned perfectly to my words. So I have to only eat really healthy foods or only ever do really healthy activities or just being very rigidly.
• Margaux Leigh Hamiliton (15:52): Perfectionist
• Annie Altman (15:53): about being 100% consistent, and reliable and yeah, all the time and that is not a sustainable practice that doesn't feel like a real vulnerable to my true self as a human practice to like, we were talking about of Everyone choosing different addictions to act like, oh, I'm above that. So I don't need to choose any addictions. I'm not going to drink or not, going to have coffee, even or pot. Or I'm not gonna happen because to me, it really comes back to the moment that I am. Placing someone else above or beneath me in terms of their skills at humaning-ing. Is the moment I'm taking personally and I've never put those together in that way before. So, thank you for asking about that.
• Annie Altman (17:20): I think called both of those words. Well I definitely as we were talking about before recording have stubbornly slowed, my life Pace even more and being like I'm not rushing. That shit makes me anxious so I'm just not gonna do it. That's we're all gonna die. One day to go into more biddy. Nobody makes out a life alive.
• Annie Altman (18:18): for me recently. I'm also realizing it's actually as I express it out loud and accepting that because I definitely put myself on a high standard of always needing to have all of these things fit together. Perfectly consistently and reliably and Yeah, and then taking it personally if someone did something that to me felt like they were pointing out how I wasn't. Perfect about something, right?
• Annie Altman (22:07): I'm so glad I am. I'm I have learned so much on every one of these podcasts to blow my mind as I was saying, Hewitt his in. Three months not even his changed my speech patterns.
• Annie Altman (27:08): I've noted that the nicer I talked to other people, the nicer. I talk to myself and
• Margaux Leigh Hamiliton (27:13): vice versa. Yeah.
• Annie Altman (27:14): And that comes again to the personal thing because what I'm taking things personally that I'm not generally talking is kindly to people and in taking it personally, I'm not talking, I'm talking less than kindly to myself, too, because I am, Personally, feeling some Judgment of, oh, I'm not working hard enough. I'm not. Pretty enough. I'm not smart enough. I'm not at whatever enough. and so I mean it to myself about it, a lot, a lot of this, I'm realizing comes to the Base practice of being gentle with yourself, which I had a meditation. A meditation, a meditation. Teacher saying, College was if He said, I could give one piece of advice to all Millennials and all people.
• Annie Altman (28:25): Yeah, the things that we say to ourselves when, and it really comes up, when we take stuff personally and we feel attacked and triggered and then we start saying things to ourself that we would never say to a friend that we would It's laughable, and it's laughable in a laugh. So I don't cry about this way because the more I reflected on this, the more I have seen how much of my life I spend as an asshole to myself which is an asshole. Comment, just say about my past self and feels like my true shit of just focusing on the flaw the wrong. The what I was doing that was not enough that someone else was a higher rank better than me, whatever more worthy than me rather than Where were the in different ways? The cliche of people being on their own journey
• Annie Altman (31:34): my personal priorities that I feel comfortable, having teachers have similar ones too, are Safety and breathe. Breathe. Number one, and Being mindful about your body, getting safely in and out of postures. So doing things that don't like being mindful of. you know, warming, a certain muscle or certain part of the body, the spine up in it and we're going into something
• Annie Altman (1:06:49): perceiving judging is about how open someone is to plan a changing and how much they want structure and schedules why I would have put, you know, okay, my point more here was that All these personality tests and how fun it is to talk about astrology and all these things. It's another dance between Having labels having categorization putting people in different boxes so we can make sense of them. Well also Letting go of that rigid attachment to. This is who someone is and and this Enneagram type is quote better than that Enneagram. It's not they're just Personality. Yeah, I

• Annie Altman (5:32): I appreciate the self-awareness. and also, the Self-reflection on it, I find that. So I'm a big believer that everything is addictions in life. in working in labs and just I love that framework of how people make decisions about what they do and work is absolutely an addiction. A lot of people can can get really Attached to their work to having that scheduled to have something to do to. Assigning their value in the world, quote unquote, to what they're producing and what they're putting out there. and it's interesting then to hear about setting boundaries compartmentalizing your work and how you're doing that giving you Again. More space, more openness to do. To do other things to reflect on yourself to, to set up to compartmentalize your work life so that you can have the space to step back and say, oh, I'm really good at compartmentalizing, my work, my work life, maybe that's something about working a lot and maybe I can learn from this. I can Direct myself to other things.
• Annie Altman (8:32): Wow. I feel like often that's a huge. Wow. Also just the from my current bias perspective, sort of coming back from hippie extremism, I'm totally on the wagon of yeah, that fuck that shit to curse that it's not important. It's not what life is about connection. Like, it's about feeling good, whatever good means. I am glad that you did there and I'm glad that you brought that up. I find that to be a big. tool of therapy is The reminder that you're not alone that whatever you're going through, other people have gone through. It have felt similar things that it's quote, unquote, normal. So to have someone to have a professional point out to you, hey, because you've built your life around this thing. For so long, it's totally normal that in in some ways it's a grieving process that that thing is gone. And so you're you're like, wait a minute, what just happened? All the, who am I questions? And so, to have someone say, you're still, you're still you, it's still you there. And it makes me think with compartmentalizing that, in some ways, compartmentalizing is like choosing the zoom. How much you zoom in or zoom out on a situation? So you can compartmentalize and get really focused, which is part of why. It can be great in business or it can be great in personal life too right now. For both of us to compartmentalize the rest of our lives, emotional existence, and to just sit here and have a conversation and really zoom in on this one thing. And then I know for me, A lot of times, the lesson is to zoom out to pull back and say, what's really important here? What actually feels What actually feels good. I remember saying that to you at the studio of like without compartmentalization we wouldn't be able to have this conversation now either. Yeah.
• Annie Altman (12:13): You're right. It's gonna happen or it's it's more. I'll say a curious inquiry a little bit deeper about something. We were talking about before recording. So One. I agree about that with multitasking and I used to really pride myself on being really good at multitasking and I've sent been more and more. on the spectrum of pride, in myself, when I just do one task at a time and let myself fully just do it sometimes, even like listening to something while making dinner. Sometimes is all I want to do in a super relaxing and sometimes I feel like oh too much stimulation or I want I want less. I want less going on. One of the things we were talking about before recording was playing instruments and you brought that up again of therapy of instruments and so that made me think that there is some level of multi-tasking that is helpful to your brain or that can be Useful, I'll say in a practice. So for me, playing with Glee and singing along or if you are Playing an instrument and singing at the same time or noticing your breath more while you're playing. I don't know. This is getting a little bit rambly and I'm bringing up. For me, I tend to be an extremist. So, I'm like, okay, either you compartmentalize completely or you don't or you multitask, or you don't. So
• Annie Altman (18:24): I agree with that. some of the most helpful advice I've ever received ever. And this person said that this was the advice, they'd give to everyone is be gentle with yourself. And that to me is The Baseline of all self-care practices is being nicer to yourself, talking to yourself. How you would talk to another person. so, then again, with the priorities of compartmentalization, Compartmentalizing your life in a way to let self-care be your first priority.
• Annie Altman (20:19): that you have to take care of yourself to me in my at the ripe age of almost 25. It feels like there's just gonna just keep being more. On Earth thing or there's more layers to the self-care business. It keeps seeming. I feel like I'm going to continue to see ways in which I haven't or ways in which I can more and part of me thinks maybe there is some sort of binary, there is some sort of either you both have the privilege to make self-care priority and recognize it or you don't. And I think even within recognizing it there's Waves of it. Layers of it. It seems. Seems like the constant theme Here of like and me wanting to find an answer and find a theme. Just say that. To come back to it. The, I really resonate with the fear of it and the fear of selfishness is a big one, especially as a 24 year old and with all of the you know, Millennials are so selfish and all of these things that are Well, on the one hand, I'm getting all these messages and so it feels great for me from someone who's not in their 20s to hear a message of you gotta take care of yourself, the world really would be, quote better if everyone did their best to take care of themselves. There's all these messages of, oh, that's so absorbed. You're being so, focused. You know, you have to go out and work more do, more create more rather than be with yourself?
• Annie Altman (23:17): Wow. It's, that's an interesting point once again with With self-care and compartmentalization that? Self-care throws throws a fun wrench in because there's at one at once there's the how you schedule or can you schedule? You can say okay I'm scheduling a night for myself tonight and taking self-care as you were saying. It's it's a funny thing like and that's definitely a thing that I would do in goofy serious mode of like. Okay. I'm gonna set this very rigid thing to take care of myself which
• Annie Altman (26:42): that brings up then. Factory farming. That brings up factory farming of plants as well, and processed foods. And the ways in which The, how we can. Help. All of the environmental chaos. Yes. Is reduced meat consumption? And I for a while, thought it meant Zero meat consumption and I personally am not interested in meat and more and more. I'm seeing that There's a zoomed out perspective on dealing with these big issues and so yes, ending factory farming, yes, reducing meat. it's more reducing how much plastic people use in processed foods, and it's I think this is where with compartmentalization and it's a way to sort of pretend momentarily that the world is much more black and white than it is, that was a big part of what drew me to veganism was, I was like, yes solution, to all of my physical and mental ailments and the whole planets everything and And humans we love I love having an answer quote pretending like I know something and then I feel
• Annie Altman (27:57): Yeah well then to go back to workahaulism is and everything being in addiction it's that's its own Rush of dopamine in the same way any substance or an Instagram like or whatever it is that feeling of I know it's another, it's another dopamine rush and then I zoom out and I'm like, wait a minute. There's the world eating more plant-based. Seems not only more feasible. Seems like it would actually do more for the world than saying everyone needs to be fully vegan and only every plants. To say, people need to eat. Mostly plans. And people need to be mindful about where they're sourcing their animal products from.
• Guest (28:43): a little effort. 🟡I love you saying black and white. It's like I used to life. Life used to be. So very black and white🟡 and now You know, there's so many areas that it's way more gray than it's ever been. And it's like and that in reality, that's the way the world is the world is just one big, you know, middle grade, maybe a little warm but it's like, it's so not black and white. And I think when you look at it, You know when you if we can just change the filter of our lens just a little bit right. We don't necessarily need a whole new pair of glasses. We just need just to change it just a little bit life. Just becomes a lot easier.
• Annie Altman (29:34): white wipe. The lens is a little. It's interesting to me. How Stepping into that black and white perspective can help. It sounds like in both of our experiences, teach us more about the reality of the gray or the very colorful gray area of life and helps me and my personal being jumped with myself practice. Because I can often be hard on myself about being such an extremist. And I could also choose to look at it as what a great way to really learn about your boundaries and to learn about the extreme and then come to some middle ground or to know more of the quote, big picture. I'm sure you're 25
• Annie Altman (30:44): I'll say, it's been a very full, 🟠🟠almost 25 years of dealing with obsessive compulsive Tendencies.🟠🟠 So I have taken a lot of notes. Yeah, I had a lot of experience.
• Annie Altman (30:57): And and I'm really grateful that it's brought me here to learn to be a little less serious and rigid about it. And so the kitchen table and asked willing participants questions about what they've learned from life. So I can keep compiling notes and talk it all through in the human one day and here we go,
• Annie Altman (33:39): We're all just compartmentalizing to get through our days to a certain capacity. I guess you could look at it that way. Kind of a dark kind of a dark. It's like everyone. We're all addicted to something. We're all coping with existence. or we're all finding out how to enjoy it and Market our time, something about compartmentalizing helping us be more present. I'll say,

• Annie Altman (7:16): when people rape, when people have sex with someone without consent, yeah, they feel like no one will consent to having sex with them. So they are gonna Force the one to do it.
• Annie Altman (7:26): even those people are desperately expressing the same. Need from my perspective, the I want I want you to want me. I need you to need me. So this guy.
• Annie Altman (21:10): related than I realized to this topic that unpacking your ship is sort of a millennial Obsession. He Millennial the millennial and that's one thing I love and I'm proud to associate with. Is that Curiosity that oh, wow. Whatever. Everything is a mirror. I'm always projecting my stuff. And so I better get an idea of what it is that I'm projecting exactly. Before I go into it, the relationship stuff too and it's It's interesting. It really is a big part of unpacking. Your shit is related to romantic relationships because so much of it comes out romantic relationships and family relationships. There's just such an intense love and so much comes.
• Annie Altman (47:20): the story that you just told to and Pamela helping you unpack and and get to something new and what I always I always is probably pushing it right in my recent. Yes, I'll say a couple years of unpacking especially last year is that all of the unpacking to me that all humans are doing the thing that we all have the same here is that at a certain point in our unpacking we get to this moment where we are confronted with the fact that we've never believed we were enough we don't feel and we've attached ourselves to this unworthiness. So like you were saying, you were saying this exact thing and in your story of and and I do the same thing too of like, You know, I'm playing downplaying it or wanting to or wanting to be like, oh, look at these accolades of all these things I did. Yeah. So that it, you know, gives some
• Annie Altman (52:22): I think a lot of it comes from not unpacking your shit. And then something happens that triggers you to unpack it
• Annie Altman (1:05:54): one of them I can say is being less rigid and less perfectionistic about everything. So like in this moment I'm like Oh my the Pod this is longer than I wanted the podcast to be, but I'm liking what we're talking about and I don't want to edit them and I want it to whatever it maybe people aren't gonna listen. Yeah, because the podcast analytic show me that most people listen to 45 minutes or 30 minutes, not a whole hour. And so that's been a big unpacking for me to say to come back to what you're saying the beginning of hu fucking cares. Like this is my podcast. Your, if I want us to be an hour, bitch, if you want this to be three hours weekend. Yeah, let's see. Dragon podcaster that long and I'm, yeah, so yeah, there's a certain way I can't. Listen, three hours. No, exactly. So, yeah, that's where it gets tricky. Because to me it's sort of In some ways, it's like, when someone shows up late to something and well, obviously it's not a personal thing and people do their own thing. Yeah. Why that offends people is that it feels like it's disrespectful, right? Of someone's time. So, for me, putting out a three-hour podcast is borderline disrespectful of someone's time because it's You really gonna sit to commit to a three-hour long podcaster, you're going to like, break that up over things, or maybe someone has a three-hour driving commute. Exactly. And I Don't know like what it is though. Like, we are in our own heads about exactly. So that's my that's my unpacking. Yes. At a certain point to take a fucking break from unpacking. Yeah, not be. So in my head about it and just

• Annie Altman (4:54): It is definitely you gave a lot of great information and one of the things I was talking thinking, as you were talking was that was a big piece of what drew me to you was in special watching your Instagram stories. That it felt very Genuine, which a lot of can be kind of a, buzzword of authenticity, and a lot of social media, doesn't there. I'm a Believer and social media gets tricky as humans. We have a built-in bulshit sensor, we can tell and so when there's an Instagram influencer in their posting something there's times and then I'm like, you know, okay maybe this is my own projection of these own things you don't I'll never know for sure like will have time to all look at someone's pictures and words and I'll feel like, ooh, something's something's not really lighting up here. Like, you know, they're talking about feeling really comfortable with food. I'm not really feeling that or oh, that sentence reminds me of something I've said in my own disorder or whatever, whereas watching your stuff. There's such a, you're so aware of the language you're using with food and the thoughts you're having around it and it It reminds me of when you practice yoga next to someone whose body is practiced, yoga, lots of times.
• Annie Altman (10:44): interesting that Because so much of stuff with food comes in to control and insecurities and Body Image. Things that I totally agree with what you're coming from of A lot of people who are coaching could be, oh I don't, I don't need that help. I don't know whatever.
• Annie Altman (13:30): Yeah. Wow. I thought that I feel like you like Channel and some shit. Sometimes when you're talking about food I'm like damn you lived lived with this and like in lifetimes to go into the hippie whatever things I'm like that. Yeah. It's it really is a fragile ego to to care and and to admit, oh, In the other spiritual things of everything as a reflection of us, this has nothing to do with that person's body. That I'm, that I'm judging or that, I'm whatever. And just that this is about me and 🟡I love using the word threatened for the external environment, threatening someone in that feeling of The world being out to get them🟡 or that, and then that's where the cycle comes of people needing the. And that I've experienced as well, like, oh, 🟡I need to control things more because things are here are gonna Things are threatening to me🟡 rather than oh things are here for me. And what a great meal, like and have a friend, and go out and do this or that or that or whatever, whatever it is. And it's It's interesting just how deep all of our biases that we don't want to admit. And with food, I feel like we all want to act, like we know what we're doing much like with life in general, and I was just talking about this at lunch with friends about For me, finding the comedy in it has been a helpful way of taking it less seriously. And so laughing about the fact that We know nothing about food. Collectively. There are people who say that meat isn't food, they're people who say that fruit isn't food. So like already on that. I've met people who like, look at one Camp of eating and say that the other Camp is not eating quote, real food.
• Annie Altman (23:48): to The Grieving and the It is, it's always, it's always about something else. It's always about a bigger feeling. And so, Something else that I I really respect in your messages that this is. It's not about food. It's not even a sort of about food, it's not.
• Annie Altman (24:04): the part of again seeing cheeze-its or whatever is humerus is it's not about the cheese, it's even sort of know the Cheez-Its are Borderline completely irrelevant. Yeah here. Yeah.
• Annie Altman (31:14): see totally earlier. We were talking. I was like, fuck, I totally did something. In a similar line where I posted something with my stomach with looking bigger and like being held about someone's head and Acro and some caption about like being really uncomfortable with my stomach and learning to reclaim it. And then even later that night that I posted it, I was like, wait a minute, like yes my body bigger than my body was before my body still is smaller than most bodies are. And so you it's it's a tricky thing because it's I want people to share on a like I do believe in people sharing and I think sometimes even like trigger warnings on everything can go excessively far more than people just don't share and don't communicate openly, right? And also you can really trigger people and people can get really triggered by things and so as much as we can have some awareness of because really I think what that comes to is like you were and I feel like this is what you're saying of Its pointing to somebody something that they're still working through or is you were saying about the wound versus the scar.
• Annie Altman (32:16): rather than it being really teaching from a place that I did have this open wound for a while and and it's a scarred out and that scar still changing and whatever and it's, you know, there's not any endpoint but that's still
• Whitney Catalano (39:12): Isn't it funny though too? That we can like sit here and talk about food, freedom, and like food and stuff. And then it'll immediately goes to body image because that's like what it. It's like not about the food, you know. So true. Yeah. That's
• Annie Altman (39:24): a yeah, it's not about the food at all. It's food is the way to control body's.
• Annie Altman (45:18): Yeah, well so much of this stuff too. To is just the getting, for me. I'm realizing is the getting so obsessive compulsive zoomed in on something and and missing the whole bigger picture of what the diversity of bodies there is
• Annie Altman (48:49): shows. And as you were saying diet binged, 🟠🟠I restrict binge restrict binge.🟠🟠 

• Note(s):
  • "Cannie", short for "Trash Can" [AA24o], is the Altman brothers' nickname for Annie.
  • In my opinion, there's sort of a pattern throughout the episode:
    • Annie brings up something she wants to talk about, often related to projection, feelings, or working through challenging emotions
    • Her brothers then cut her off or subtly alter the topic of conversation away from what Annie originally brought up, instead discussing topics that are...less sensitive, basically.
    • It's sort of hard to describe. I'd recommend listening to the episode yourself - I think you'll sort of see what I'm talking about. (This is just my interpretation, of course, You may disagree, and that's understandable.)
  • During the episode, Annie starts to talk about projection (in psychology), as well as how people are "wired to remember painful experiences." Sam interjects and cuts her off, moving the topic of conversation away from "remembering painful experiences" to "hypocrisy", and then detours the topic of conversation even further away from projection & memory to "giving feedback {at work}." Mutliple times, Annie starts to return to the topic of projection; each time, the Altman brothers interject and start talking about "feedback", specifically in work-related contexts. (Note: perhaps this interpretation of mine is biased. This was the impression I got after listening to the podcast, specifically from 24:30 -- 39:05 (the end of the podcast.) As always, I've linked the source material, and you can go listen yourself and see what you think.)
• Excerpts from the podcast episode itself:
  • Annie Altman (0:00): "Hello. My name is Annie Altman, and I've spent my life on a quest for true shit. Welcome to Episode 5 of Podcastukkah. So far, I've learned that 'the truth hurts' is some true shit, and there is no ultimate true shit, because my truth is different from someone else's truth, and my truth now is different from my truth a year ago. Some true shit that has held up over time: one, be honest, the truth will come out eventually, and lying only complicates things. Two, the truth is simple, and lies are complicated. Three, be kind, and treat people how you want to be treated. If you are uninterested in someone else imposing their true shit on to you, do your best to be mindful about imposing your true shit onto others. This show is basically an opportunity for me to shoot the shit about things I want to shoot the shit about with people I want to shoot the shit with. Thanks for listening to me practice "human"-ing. In this episode, I'll be discussing projection with all three of my older brothers. Sam, Max, and Jack Altman, I'm very grateful and privileged that you were all willing to take some time during this Thanksgiving holiday to circle around a microphone and record some thoughts on projection. Thank you all for coming."
  • Sam Altman (1:17): 🟡Thanks for having us on, Cannie.🟡
  • Jack Altman (1:18): 🟡Thrilled to be here, Cannie.🟡
  •  
  • Annie Altman (8:01): what you your business is built on giving feedback and how you communicate about these things. So we can talk about that. We can also talk about within families and I can speak as a very sensitive of the Altman children here and how that influences I think that's a big theme with this too is what someone someone's Baseline is about how they're going to receive things and then how you how you talk about it. So what would you say? Do you think it feels similar how this stuff comes up both in your professional lives and in your personal lives? Does it feel like there's a big distinction?
  •  
  • Sam Altman (8:36): I think one weird Trend happening right now is that people are writing like user manuals for themselves and how to work with them. Like Mandarin have started doing these last six or 12 months. Whoa, negative people, they manage now like here's my user guide. And you know like here's how I give and receive feedback here for those sensitive to do you like and actually it's a terrible. I
  •  
  • Jack Altman (11:29): was offended by it and you tried your best the whole time. I think part of it is sort of the trust premise because, like, let's say, you give feedback to a family member, hopefully they understand the intent is that you're gonna try to make their lives better. You're trying to help them in some way, so it makes it better somehow Versus if a stranger gives feedback to a stranger in most cases, you don't necessarily assume that the person is trying to help the other strategy, you might assume that they're, you know, maybe virtue signaling on Twitter, they're trying to make themselves feel better about a choice that they made in the past. You'd assume some other intention before, just trying to randomly help with stranger. So I think a lot of it because feedback is a weird thing and if you call let's go going back to the lazy example. If I call somebody lazy, I could be trying to do with 1000 different things. So depending on what my relationship is with the person, they'll take it up very differently. So I think the the more random the connection, the more objective and data driven, you want to be in your feedback and the more Trust, you have and the closer you are, the more sort of generic, you can be with the feedback because they'll trust that your intentions are good.
  • Annie Altman (12:33): I appreciate the reminder to look for the positive as another life thing to not look to be offended to look for people. Having positive intentions and to look for people wanting to help you grow and learn a quote that came up in my head that had come up on a different podcast as well. Is a Lewis cakes quote, that has seen a totally new light now that he said, if someone tells you that you hurt their feelings, you're not allowed to say no. And this is where I get into. what, what do we do when everyone's feelings are valid and We all want to learn and share and we can only learn and share from each other.
  • Jack Altman (13:20): Can you define? I never understood this valid.
  • Annie Altman (13:22): Valid feeling. You say
  • Jack Altman (13:23): I do. So, what does it mean? What does it mean for feelings to be valid?
  • Annie Altman (13:26): That feelings aren't right or wrong that inherently. There's not an incorrect or correct in feelings, that feelings happen. So
  • Jack Altman (13:33): are all feelings valid.
  • Annie Altman (13:34): Yes, I
  • Jack Altman (13:35): can have a horrific feeling and it's valid.
  • Annie Altman (13:36): Yes. From my
  • Sam Altman (13:38): I think personal protections are valid but all actions as well from feeling or not and reaction response, something I can. But I can't respond. The way that I want. Right. At least I can't if I want to be a productive happy person. And so like if someone says something to me that I don't like, I think it's projection, I it's certainly valid for me to feel a flash onions but it's up to me then whether or not I let that like ruin my day or if I kind of find Value out of it and I would argue that I'm a mistake that a lot of people make. Is. To look for ways to ruin their own day. And again, like the feelings, certainly valid the response like, you know, maybe that's valid, maybe it's not but like, um, there are a lot of people who look to be offended or look to be anger, looked to be upset. There are a lot of people who look to be upset on behalf of other people, even when the person in question is not upset or offended and like, I don't know if that's valid or invalid but I don't think it is a recipe for
  •  
  • Annie Altman (24:30): ...in some ways, we're 🟡wired to remember painful experiences so that we do learn from them🟡...to remember negativity, and remember those things --
  • Sam Altman (🟡interjecting🟡) (24:55): " -- more than that, I think one thing we're particularly wired for, I don't know why, is to not like hypocrisy. That's like a very deep thing..."
  •  
  • Annie Altman (26:51): I really do. I think it shared responsibility because to me both of both of those people are dealing with their own. Whatever things and to get to me, the only if we're going to get into what is a moral or ethical obligation of someone? It is treat people how you want to be treated and people want to be treated differently because really you could say treat people how they want to be treated. Then you don't know how people want to be treated. So I think this comes to both parties saying to me, part of why I talk about this is both parties having the awareness that projection is a human tendency that we all have the psychological ability to get very scared about our egos and attached to them. And so, for all of this stuff to come up. So for me, it's
  • Sam Altman (interjecting) (27:32): just the way that I look at. I think I used to take feedback very badly. And what happened is, people just stopped getting into me because it wasn't worth their effort to try to, like, figure out how I best receive feedback, which is totally right. That's not, that's not me. Not them. And what it meant is, people just stop giving me feedback
  •  
  • Annie Altman (31:17): so that example of that specific Dynamic between you. And this person makes me think of for me with my friends. I have received feedback about being super receptive to feedback from Friends whereas with the three of you I'm much less receptive because I get more sensitive for whatever reasons. So why do we think? Like why is it do you think that that person you were talking about Sam that he gets offended? More easily from other people as well. Do you think it's something about that particular example? What do you guys think about how this how it distinguishes, both family and business and all just different The different Dynamics and I do for the record. Like I am on the camp of wanting I would always rather have someone say something offensive and imperfect then not saying anything at all. I think that makes thing with political correctness.
  •  
  • 🟡Sam Altman (33:16): Annie, why do you think take feedback worse from some people than others?🟡
  • Annie Altman (33:21): It's really 🟡family friend just distinction🟡 and I think for me it has to do with what I am projecting on to those people. So I find that when I feel more insecure in what around that person when I feel less secure in myself, then I'll project going back to what you were saying about looking for the offense or looking for the negative or being sort of primed to oh this 🟡this person is is tearing me down in some way🟡 and I definitely. Do that.
  • 🟡Sam Altman (33:53): Why don't you just stop?🟡
  • Annie Altman (33:57): Because there is a difference between being aware of something and your action. So from my perspective, I am more receptive to I'm From my perspective, I feel more receptive to feedback from family than I have previously. I feel especially with friends more receptive as I've gotten older as well. So in all of life, you could I feel like you could ask that question and I, it's a valid question to make that joke or that joke, that doesn't land that
  • 🟡Jack Altman (34:34): Do you think that, you think your family has different intentions for you than your friends do? So are you less trusting of your family's intentions with their feedback?🟡
  • 🟡Annie Altman (34:41): Yes.🟡
  • 🟡Sam Altman (34:42): Why is that?🟡
  • 🟡Annie Altman (34:43): This is great to get into. I, because I project my insecurities, it's it's because of what I'm projecting on to you.🟡
  • 🟡Jack Altman (34:52): You think Sam wants to tear you down?🟡
  • Annie Altman (34:54): 🟡Occasionally🟡, or that there's because our family gets so competitive. As. We would all agree and actually not debate about the tendency in our family for debating. I find that. I mean, we've been making jokes this whole this whole trip and there's a running joke about ranking everything down to colors and fruits and things that ranking is silly in some ways of and it can still be interesting and we can learn from, I believe, for me in growing up, in a very competitive family where there's a lot of focus on doing things and achieving, and this very work, and career focused success and success, really, in a work. Environment. That. I get I project my insecurities about taking a different path and doing work and My professional whatever, as the young 24 year old? I am.
  • Annie Altman (37:06): That's why I started this off with its me. Projecting my things. then how do you, how do I go into any any feedback you want to give of how to
• Things Annie has said about this podcast episode:
  • "The podcast episode that three of these immediate biological relatives came on before those happenings, and refuse to post about, was originally supposed to be about “projecting” and instead became about “feedback."" [AA20b]
  • In [EW23a], Elizabeth Weil writes, "Among her various art projects, Annie makes a podcast called All Humans Are Human. The first Thanksgiving after their father’s death, all the brothers agreed to record an episode with her. Annie wanted to talk on air about the psychological phenomenon of projection: what we put on other people. The brothers steered the conversation into the idea of feedback — specifically, how to give feedback at work. 
    
    After she posted the show online, Annie hoped her siblings, particularly Sam, would share it. He’d contributed to their brothers’ careers. Jack’s company, Lattice, had been through YC. “I was like, ‘You could just tweet the link. That would help. You don’t want to share your sister’s podcast that you came on?’” He did not. “Jack and Sam said it didn’t align with their businesses.”" [EW23a]
    
    I also think it's worth noting that, at this point in time (December 7, 2018), Sam, Jack, and Max (and Connie) have seen Jerry's Will, and are aware that it stipulates an inheritance for Annie, but are purposefully withholding this information from Annie [AA24b].
• Author's note:
  • Again: as I understand it, at this point in time, Annie still has not yet fully remembered the abuse she experienced Sam (and her other brothers) during her childhood. This is why she is ok with doing this podcast episode with Sam and her other brothers.

• Annie Altman (14:07): I love that. That's exactly the mentality from from teachers that I continue to go back to that as you were saying, and putting together in some other ways of helping someone realize that much like Asana is whatever you're making of it. So is your whole life? It's it's your perspective. I was looking at a note that I had written about when we talked the first time and you talked about pain and discomfort and how discomfort is is really one of our our primary teachers of how to observe your reactions and how to just notice them rather than Perhaps getting stuck in them or just focusing your attention on only one spot.
•  
• Annie Altman (17:08): Wow, there were so many sentences in there that I look forward to riding down when I listen back to this. Wow. Wow, it's yes, it is definitely sitting with your stuff and okay, so something that I sit with of my stuff is someone who can tend towards over analyzing or wanting to really overthink rather than just feel something. And so as you talked about Austin being study and comfortable and also getting out of your comfort zone, how do you have that conversation with yourself of? Finding that. That happy medium that place where it's a little bit of both.
•  
• Annie Altman (19:26): Wow, I love it. I love the metaphors, too. so easily too like and discomfortable life, and the emotional discomfort that comes up from dealing with your emotional, baggage your emotional programming. Your associations that you've built.
•  
• Annie Altman (36:30): I'm so glad you brought up how modern science is catching up to yoga. I could not agree more with that and I look forward to studies more and more coming out of different breathing techniques and meditation. 🟡And I, I would love to study about white, pigeon pose, seems to be the one most people crying.🟡 like there's a lot there, very Much.
• Marylene Henry (37:02): but you know, when we when we have stress or trauma or body reacts with a fight-or-flight response, And what you need to. Fight or flight. Well, you need blood. In your glutes and airtight because you need to run away. So whenever we experience stress or trauma, this is where it's stored. This is where the energy goes in the body, but then when we're stressed, we're not running away. We're sitting at our desks wondering how we're going to send us reports on time so it gets stuck there. And when we practice these hip openers, That's the kind of imprint of that trauma. That gets really.
• Annie Altman (37:45): 🟠🟠Wow. My my mouth was literally open. Yeah, I have never thought of that. I thought about emotions being stored in our hips and I've never thought about the fight or flight connection and the muscles that were engaging for fight or flight. Wow.🟠🟠
•  
• Annie Altman (39:33): I appreciate that perspective on it because there's definitely a part of me. That's still says, dang I that means that I'll never know everything, but there's no point of that. There is no, there is no knowing everything.
• Marylene Henry (39:50): Why?
• Annie Altman (39:52): That's a great reminder. That's a great. I would not thank you for the reminder of that. It's so tempting to feel it.
• Marylene Henry (40:09): Because they happen Beyond. And we just cannot explain those feelings with words. Really Beyond. Why we can conceive and work words are human creation. That are limited to what the buddy can feel or talk or what the Mind conceived and there's an old round. Beyond that. So wanting to know everything would probably be limited to the realm of what the brain can conceive in world. What we need to accept that there are things beyond that that we can just feel.
• Annie Altman (40:59): Thank you. I think that went right up to the wooloo line for me, that was exactly what I needed to do here. So I I appreciate it and and it's true and there's what I I really appreciate the reminder on word and Something I've used words to. Words can help us describe that 🟡there are things that words cannot describe.🟡 We can talk about certain feelings that are Universal human feelings, or the being around someone who's really stressed and feeling stressed or being around. Someone really excited and feeling excited and we can we can address that. There aren't words for things. So perhaps I can use that as a way to address that there will always be a noble things and and that is part of the joy of it. And that's that's part of the whole thing.
•  
• Annie Altman (49:53): Yeah, and how do you perhaps a teacher? Could just say that in a class. So if you're shaking uncontrollably, stay where you are. You're doing great. Keep breathing. I know for me, it's a, yes, no. Can I breathe in this? so if I'm still going and if breathing is tricky, stay put Stay where I am.
•  
• Annie Altman (53:21): Indeed, so slightly off topic, I had or related and very tangential. Have you ever heard the idea of life being a spiral or the like the spiral meditation and walking a spiral inward? To me my understanding of it is the idea that life is a circle that time goes in a circle. And you pass similar things. You're a little bit different each time. so you come around to similar Concepts, themes ideas, It's a little bit changes as you go. I like the shapes is kind of connecting the woo-woo with a graph. so, my
•  
• Annie Altman (54:39): I like that. That's a funny. I love. I, I'm always here for the extended metaphor. The question I wanted to close with the the spiral here, which is related again tangentially to the overall true shit thesis. Is whether or not that spiral is going inward or going outward and this is a very personal just question. I've been thinking of recently, of Are we

• Annie Altman (8:54): Damn. Yeah, there's a lot of fun things in there. Change is. Is the only constant? It was my first tattoo for a reason because it's such a potent lesson for me to always remind myself of it being such a central Central theme of life. I'm really glad you said go with the flow so I can bring up when we would laugh about people saying, oh being I'm in the flow. I don't know if I can meet for dinner or whatever. I'm just going with the flow and all. So that being a very real thing and I'm glad you 🟠🟠brought up death and that being to me the ultimate change. When for me I feel when I get nervous about change, it really is coming back to. Fear of death. It's the change of one day life will be not life for whatever that is🟠🟠 to go right into it on the podcast.
• Annie Altman (11:46): It's all it's gonna keep happening. Apparently that idea, though of what we can't comprehend and also that is the classic human concept of fear of the unknown. And that's what we get uncomfortable with.
• Annie Altman (11:58): to say, well, we don't know and we were fine before we knew and so we'll be fine after it's where I come in. To confusion about it, is how to find the balance the classics? What is the balance, or what is the moderation of? Letting go of the control. The need to control time. We'll also still do doing things if that makes any sense. Do you feel like there's a certain point where it's just too much giving in to change that? You don't do anything and you get like pushed around metaphorically by time? Or is that me wanting to be a control freak about change and time and there's only one more surrendering and B is honest as you want it.
• Annie Altman (18:47): It is an important that comfort zone. Yeah. Well and how that comfort zone can manifest so differently for different people. Yeah, it really can and we can never really know in the going again to not knowing what someone else is going through. Not knowing how that changes really impacting someone yeah, I know for me change, definitely makes me think of grieving and loss. To death again and changes that come.
• Annie Altman (20:31): really appreciate again that perspective of Maybe time is fake and death is fake, then too. Can you apply that to romantic and friendship relationships that you agree with the end of No worries. Can you have that same sort of, like, do you use that same mentality to let go of relationships that? No longer serve you as they say in the yoga community. I think.
• Annie Altman (28:03): idea the I'm part of what I'm wanting to get out with. That is the duality of how Change comes up with the idea of their being an other, they're being something else. Maybe, I'm not. Making making total sense of. of how to define what changed even is if Let's buy into reincarnation belief for a moment. if we never born and we never die, what are we doing getting stressed about change of things aren't ever really changing and maybe now this is just sounding like super like mushroomy ramble of because it's like what the fuck is time and change and these things and and this is a tricky podcast and maybe making no sense or maybe someone's following it and unclear, we
•  
• Annie Altman (34:53): Yeah, it's a it is a trick to bring up the balance where to get of how to have the broad perspective will also have the focused perspective or the the being and doing. I know I can be on the other end of the spectrum of being so obsessively focused on one thing that I forget to zoom out. And I also know if I'm always really zoomed out, then for me, I don't do stuff because I don't do in enough to focus on one task.
•  
• Annie Altman (38:47): the my original question here was, how do you like to process change in your feelings on change? So, as you know, with me I'm a very verbal person. I love to write and talk and I like words,
•  
• Kelly Marie (41:05): I mean, I think the change is just a very personal thing, you know, we're all gonna go through it in different ways. so, I could say one thing but it could completely not relate to the change that somebody else is going through. You know.
• Annie Altman (41:24): It's a good point, that's part of why I want to interview as many people as I can for the podcast to get as many different perspective.

• Annie Altman (1:15): I'm excited to talk and put words to something that we cannot put any words to what we're gonna. We're gonna do it anyway.
• Guest (3:10): Yeah, I mean, it was, it was pretty cool. Like, I don't know, I don't remember a lot from there. I feel like I've blocked out a lot of my Childhood, it's weird. But, um,
• Annie Altman (3:23): Only so much space for so many memories.
•  
• Annie Altman (28:35): Oh yeah. And I to bring it back to the movement and Stillness. I think that's part of What they're here for. I know for me. Part of why I care so much about physical awareness, to go. Also, like going into meta here is that it It helps me. Remember that. I'm a human that I'm existing in this body. In this moment, I can feel gravity. I can tune into my the whole breath. The whole concept of breath. Awareness is yeah. I'm an awareness in a body. which like more and more, I'm saying things on this podcast and I'm like, it sounds like you're shrooming like that's And we're
•  
• Annie Altman (35:06): Dance to me. offers a really, for me as someone who can get Ridgid and perfectionist and very one track minded offers that Space. The flow. The taking it less seriously, and not consciously guiding each inhale and exhale.

• "I started taking birth control pills at the age of 15 (I’m currently 25) and decided to stop taking them right before my 23rd birthday {~2017}. Also around this same time {~2017} I finished tapering off of Zoloft, which I started taking at age 13 {~2007} to help with symptoms of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, Anxiety, and Depression. Also also around this time {~2017} I drastically altered my diet...I promptly lost my period and learned that changes relating to diet, hormonal birth control, and psychiatric medications are three of the main factors that can disrupt hormonal balance (stress being the baseline factor)."
• "I’m experiencing a second puberty, or maybe an aftershock of sorts from first puberty and/or a year without my period. It feels like a hormonal “do-over” filled with moments of deja-vu: three new crushes in one week, intense crying and laughter in the same hour, and generally going about my day acting like I’m far less confused by all this internal “shifting” than I’m actually feeling. Plus days that feel exceptionally “average” leaving me extra confused about how dramatic life felt the day before. I’m fortunate to have received a liberal education and even so there were inevitable gaps in the information I was given, and open to receiving, about puberty."
• "I majored in Biopsychology in college, with a minor in dance, and took all the prerequisite courses for medical school. Then I noped out of the pre-med route to focus on movement, writing, comedy, music, and food. I got certified as a yoga teacher, worked for an online CSA (community-supported agriculture) company, began writing more frequently, started slowly going to open mic nights and putting videos on YouTube, and began a podcast and this blog. I’m learning to give myself space to explore what genuinely excites me without justification and I’ve felt levels of self-consciousness around my career swerve that I had not experienced since first puberty. HOW will I get my intellectual ego stroked without constant science classes? How can art really have no “right” answer? Am I really the only one who can validate how my feelings feel??"
• "It’s been almost a year now since I got my period back and I feel I’ve been going through a sort of spiritual and scientific second puberty, to continue the soap operatics. A year extra filled with learning about my body’s cycle(s) and signals. Witnessing my hormones re-regulate has felt parallel to to self-soothing, not that I consciously remember learning that, and my first time with “my moon.” I started eating eggs again, including runny yolks for the first time, and ate fish for the first time in my life because my body very literally demanded them. A year without my period, after a decade of having it, felt like equal parts reset and emptiness."
• "I believe a large portion of shame takes root during puberty and then manifests as sexual repression, (sexual) aggression, body dysmorphia, addiction, and/or mood disorders. I can say for certain that has been my experience. Shame encourages ignorance by stifling conversations. Additionally, shame creates a feedback loop where ignorance is shamed and so questions and curiosity are discouraged."

Source: https://x.com/paulg/status/1796107666265108940

From [NYT23a]:

• "He {Sam} also began working on several projects outside the investment firm, including OpenAI, which he founded as a nonprofit in 2015 alongside a group that included Elon Musk. By Mr. Altman’s own admission, YC grew increasingly concerned he was spreading himself too thin."

From [WSJ23b]: 

• "In 2019, Altman was asked to resign from Y Combinator after partners alleged he had put personal projects, including OpenAI, ahead of his duties as president, said people familiar with the matter."
• "Altman turned Y Combinator into an investing powerhouse. While serving as the president, he kept his own venture-capital firm, Hydrazine, which he launched in 2012. He caused tensions after barring other partners at Y Combinator from running their own funds, including the current chief executive, Garry Tan, and Reddit co-founder Alexis Ohanian. Tan and Ohanian didn’t respond to requests for comment."
• "Altman also expanded Y Combinator through a nonprofit he created called YC Research, which served as an incubator for Altman’s own projects, including OpenAI. From its founding in 2015, YC Research operated without the involvement of the firm’s longtime partners, fueling their concern that Altman was straying too far from running the firm’s core business."
• "By early 2018, Altman was barely present at Y Combinator’s headquarters in Mountain View, Calif., spending more time at OpenAI, at the time a small research nonprofit, according to people familiar with the matter."
• "The increasing amount of time Altman spent at OpenAI riled longtime partners at Y Combinator, who began losing faith in him as a leader. The firm’s leaders asked him to resign, and he left as president in March 2019."
• "Graham said it was his wife’s doing. “If anyone ‘fired’ Sam, it was Jessica, not me,” he said. “But it would be wrong to use the word ‘fired’ because he agreed immediately.”"
• "Jessica Livingston said her husband was correct."
• "To smooth his exit, Altman proposed he move from president to chairman. He pre-emptively published a blog post on the firm’s website announcing the change. But the firm’s partnership had never agreed, and the announcement was later scrubbed from the post."
• "For years, even some of Altman’s closest associates—including Peter Thiel, Altman’s first backer for Hydrazine—didn’t know the circumstances behind Altman’s departure."

• "1. OCD
• 2. Anxiety
• 3. Depression
• 4. A lack of awareness about how a uterus is literally an additional organ inside the abdomen’s of roughly half of all humans
• 5. A belief that a stomach that does not fold when a whole body folds is a body that exists
• 6. A belief that any body’s appearance is fixed its entire lifetime
• 7. A belief that anything in this physical world is fixed, ever
• 8. Media of all forms (especially advertising)
• 9. Equating appearance (and perspectives on appearance) with value
• 10. Equating numerical values with black and white rules, always
• 11. A belief that I could control my body completely with enough will power
• 12. A belief that controlling my body could control my entire life
• 13. A belief that controlling my body could control its inevitable decay (lack of knowledge that fearing death is fearing actually living life)
• 14. Equating control with peace and happiness
• 15. A tendency towards being self-critical
• 16. Ego
• 17. Privilege
• 18. Taking this existence way extra seriously"