Does Extreme Pain/Trauma Inherently Disrupt or "Kill" Consciousness/sentience? Biological vs. Fundamental, with Implications for Digital Minds — LessWrong
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what happens when pain becomes too much? Could overwhelming hurt break apart awareness itself ? like passing out or freezing up? or is that just one way biological bodies cope to stay alive? Suppose splitting apart under pressure isn’t inevitable, but optional. Then even artificial minds might avoid endless torment by design. But if collapse only occurs because biology evolved a cutoff point, sentient AI might suffer forever, never given a way out.
Right now, this matters a lot. because it's linked tightly to suffering risks in AI, ideas about awareness (IIT), plus logical thinking around machine minds. What stands out for me the most is uncertainty over whether breakdown happens in extreme conditions.
Truth is, thinking about any mind, living or machine, stuck in endless agony horrifies me deeply. This possibility shakes me more than most outcomes of powerful artificial minds. Sometimes i wish there is proof that unbearable suffering simply shuts awareness down. but no matter how hard it hits. i want to know the truth.
When pain becomes too intense, humans and animals may pass out, freeze up, or disconnect from reality. Fainting happens through a reflex that slows heart rate, Shutting down like this might help survival by avoiding worse injury, Some stop moving entirely, Others mentally check out while their body stays put, catatonia, etc.. Could such responses work outside biological bodies? Even if built differently than flesh and blood? is it like an inherent part of sentience architecture?
One idea comes from Integrated Information Theory (IIT). This approach links awareness to how tightly a system's parts work together, measured by something named Φ (phi). When shocks like injury flood the brain, that tight web might break apart. If so, Φ dips fast. Experience may stop. It fits certain gut feelings about blacking out under pressure.
Some say pain doesn’t necessarily lower Φ. maybe because it operates in isolated parts, or feeling good or bad isn’t tied to how unified the system is. Machines without living bodies might not faint or lose circulation, yet still face limits through glitches or capped processing, kind of like a stand-in for collapse.
Questions for the Community
Does IIT (or alternatives like GWT) predict inevitable disruption under extreme negative valence? What models/calculations exist?
Evidence for/against biology-specific vs substrate-general?
suppose that there is a sadistic agent that does want to build an AI or a sentient being only for the purpose of torture, are there any safe mechanisms working for the victim?
Got any guesses? Maybe a link to something missed?
Appreciate your time if you reply. Just starting out here, so hearing what you think helps.
what happens when pain becomes too much? Could overwhelming hurt break apart awareness itself ? like passing out or freezing up? or is that just one way biological bodies cope to stay alive? Suppose splitting apart under pressure isn’t inevitable, but optional. Then even artificial minds might avoid endless torment by design. But if collapse only occurs because biology evolved a cutoff point, sentient AI might suffer forever, never given a way out.
Right now, this matters a lot. because it's linked tightly to suffering risks in AI, ideas about awareness (IIT), plus logical thinking around machine minds. What stands out for me the most is uncertainty over whether breakdown happens in extreme conditions.
Truth is, thinking about any mind, living or machine, stuck in endless agony horrifies me deeply. This possibility shakes me more than most outcomes of powerful artificial minds. Sometimes i wish there is proof that unbearable suffering simply shuts awareness down. but no matter how hard it hits. i want to know the truth.
When pain becomes too intense, humans and animals may pass out, freeze up, or disconnect from reality. Fainting happens through a reflex that slows heart rate, Shutting down like this might help survival by avoiding worse injury, Some stop moving entirely, Others mentally check out while their body stays put, catatonia, etc..
Could such responses work outside biological bodies? Even if built differently than flesh and blood? is it like an inherent part of sentience architecture?
One idea comes from Integrated Information Theory (IIT). This approach links awareness to how tightly a system's parts work together, measured by something named Φ (phi). When shocks like injury flood the brain, that tight web might break apart. If so, Φ dips fast. Experience may stop. It fits certain gut feelings about blacking out under pressure.
However, LW has critiqued/expanded on this:
Some say pain doesn’t necessarily lower Φ. maybe because it operates in isolated parts, or feeling good or bad isn’t tied to how unified the system is. Machines without living bodies might not faint or lose circulation, yet still face limits through glitches or capped processing, kind of like a stand-in for collapse.
Questions for the Community
Does IIT (or alternatives like GWT) predict inevitable disruption under extreme negative valence? What models/calculations exist?
Evidence for/against biology-specific vs substrate-general?
suppose that there is a sadistic agent that does want to build an AI or a sentient being only for the purpose of torture, are there any safe mechanisms working for the victim?
Got any guesses? Maybe a link to something missed?
Appreciate your time if you reply.
Just starting out here, so hearing what you think helps.