LESSWRONG
LW

World Optimization
Frontpage

102

Immigration to Poland

by Martin Sustrik
8th Sep 2025
250bpm
4 min read
16

102

World Optimization
Frontpage

102

Immigration to Poland
21Jan Betley
63mruwnik
11Thomas Kwa
2mruwnik
20MondSemmel
3ACCount
15MondSemmel
2ACCount
1ChristianKl
3MondSemmel
2ChristianKl
2MondSemmel
2ChristianKl
8mruwnik
1Jazi Zilber
3Martin Sustrik
New Comment
16 comments, sorted by
top scoring
Click to highlight new comments since: Today at 8:43 PM
[-]Jan Betley4d210

(Context: I don't know much about immigration, but I live in Poland)

Fighting back against Lukashenko thus means violating Geneva Convention, which, in turn, means that the whole thing poses a direct challenge to the credibility of the international legal order.

My current understanding is that there's a few meter fence on the border and it's being patrolled by the army, so the situation now is controlled and stable and doesn't really mean violating Geneva Convention that much (I don't know what happens to people who managed to climb the fence, but considering no media coverage, this is probably very rare).

Reply
[-]mruwnik3d630

I have personally met those who manage to get over the wall. Each year I go to Białowieża for a week or so of bird counting, which gives me a pass into the strict reservation (i.e. no one other than scientists are allowed in). GPT-5 estimates that 60-80% of crossing attempts are in that border strip of around 60km - mainly because this is dense forest and marshland.

The first year we'd meet wet, tired, hungry and cold groups of 2-3 people every couple of days. These were very scared and confused people who were promised good jobs in Europe, but got bused to the border, documents confiscated and pointed in the direction of Poland. Which in this case was 100 km^2 of virgin forest (the last lowland one in Europe). There were people who would try to find them and smuggle them over to Germany (where they wanted to go anyway), but at the same time you had the border guards running around, and also local toughs who wanted to show those nasty foreigners where their place was. To drive in to Białowieża (the village next to the national park) you needed to have a special pass, and the police would stop everyone driving in or out and check their cars. We'd give whatever food we had to these people, as you could see they needed it.

The next years there were soldiers patrolling the forest and the immigrant groups were better organised. They would be wearing more appropriate clothes (waterproof stuff, mainly) - the previous groups didn't know what they were getting in to, but these at least came semi prepared. These we wouldn't give food to, just wave at them and point the way to the edge of the forest.

This year most of the soldiers are gone, as the wall is supposed to stop the immigrants. And we didn't meet immigrants that often. But when we would, it was groups of 10-20 people, well dressed, with a guide with a GPS (or at least a proper compass) showing them which way to go, along well trampled paths. 

When I chatted with the soldiers, they'd complain that they'd catch a group, send them back over the border, just to have to catch them again a few days later. If someone is in a bad state, they'll keep them in hospital for a bit, then bus them back to the border.

Even if a group gets across the fence, they have to cross something like 10km of real forest (not pine fields) in which it's really easy to get lost, then once they are out, they need to either go hundreds of kilometers across hostile territory (to the German border) or find someone willing to smuggle them out (which requires coordination and trust). The fence itself is not that much of a barrier - it will slow them down for 10-20 minutes, but it's not that hard to climb it (with a ladder and a blanket), and there have been multiple attempts to dig tunnels underneath (of which I know of). 

It's hard to know what the real numbers are. All sides try to keep things murky. The ~10 scientists I hang out with there would in aggregate see a group daily, and those are just those they'd see. Sometimes the park guards would tell us to be careful as they knew of a group in a given area. Most of these will be caught, but a lot will get through. GPT-5 gives me the following (note that these are attempts, most of which will be repeat offenders, and there are a lot fewer successes than attempts):

202139,697 attempts
2022≈15,600 attempts
202326,000 attempts
202430,090 attempts
2025 YTD≥20,200 (Aug 18) → ≈23,400 (Sep 8)

Most of these are on the border itself, where people trying to climb the fence are stopped. It's still a lot. Few immigrants want to stay in Poland (why would they? :D) - they want to get to Germany. GPT-5 gives the following numbers from German police reports (I haven't checked these), which is a lower bound on how many get through:

YearDetected entries to Germany via “Belarus‑Route”Notes / sources
2021 (May–Dec only)11,228First systematic reporting started 1 May 2021; special (provisional) Bundespolizei tally. (Bundestag DServer)
20228,760Full year, PES. (Bundestag DServer)
202311,932Full year, PES (peak year after 2021). (Bundestag DServer)
2024 (Jan–Jun)3,117Official H1 total, PES; monthly path Jan–Jun: 26, 25, 413, 865, 1,125, 663. (Bundestag DServer)
2024 (full‑year, best estimate)≈5,000–6,000Two anchors: (i) H1 official = 3,117; (ii) for 2024 Germany counted ~16,000 unauthorised entries at the Polish border, of which about one‑third were attributed to the Belarus route ⇒ ~5,300 (lower bound at that border; entries via Czechia add a bit). (Mediendienst Integration)

The fact that Germany has reinstated border checks for the last year also suggests that a lot are getting through, or at least that Germany believes that they do.

Reply5
[-]Thomas Kwa4d112

According to Wikipedia it seems to have worked well and not been expensive.

Poland began work on the 5.5-meter (18 foot) high steel wall topped with barbed wire at a cost of around 1.6 billion zł (US$407m) [...] in the late summer of 2021. The barrier was completed on 30 June 2022.[3] An electronic barrier [...] was added to the fence between November 2022 and early summer 2023 at a cost of EUR 71.8 million.[4]

[...] official border crossings with Belarus remained open, and the asylum process continued to function [...]

In 2024 [...] Exluding those who submitted applications at airports, there were 3,141 [asylum applications from] persons coming directly from the territory of Belarus, Russia or Ukraine.

Since the fence was built, illegal crossings have reduced to a trickle; however, between August 2021 and February 2023, 37 bodies were found on both sides of the border; people have died mainly from hypothermia or drowning.[11]

The Greenberg article also suggests a reasonable tradeoff is being made in policy

Despite these fears, Duszczyk is convinced his approach is working. In a two-month period after the asylum suspension, illegal crossings from Belarus fell by 48% compared to the same period in 2024. At the same time, in all of 2024, there was one death—out of 30,000 attempted crossings—in Polish territory. There have been none so far in 2025. Duszczyk feels his humanitarian floor is holding.
 

Reply
[-]mruwnik3d20

Thousands is not a trickle. It's harder to get over, but it's just a wall - a ladder is not hard to make and they can keep trying. There are very few asylum applications, because the Belarusian immigrants don't want to stay in Poland, especially as they know they're not welcome. They want to go to Germany. Those who do apply, tend to be Ukrainians or Belarusians (at least this article claims that, and I trust that org to get the numbers right)

Reply
[-]MondSemmel4d203

The attitude of modern parties towards immigration policy is pretty insane. I understand that politicians, being cultural elites, tend to be much more cosmopolitan than the population average. But repeatedly overriding your own constituents' preferences inevitably invites backlash, and ultimately sets back the very cause you wanted to champion. On this topic, I liked David Frum's 2019 article, If Liberals Won’t Enforce Borders, Fascists Will.

Reply
[-]ACCount3d3-7

Pro-immigrant stance is not just "cosmopolitan" - it's also the stance backed by the economic interests.

From an economic standpoint, the case is clear: immigration is very good for economic growth. The macro scale effect is pronounced, sticky, and it takes a spectacularly failed immigration policy to undo it.

Big business also tend to be pro-immigration: a lot of them stand to benefit from increases in supply of labor directly, and a few interest groups stand to benefit from the demand driven by increases in population too - i.e. the housing sector.

This means that there's a lot of money riding on "pro-immigration", which has a way of distorting policy decisions.

I'm sure that a part of this attitude is created by the idealism of "cosmopolitan elites" - but the cynic in me can't help but notice all the financial incentives to take a pro-immigration stance, social costs and popular opinion be damned.

Reply
[-]MondSemmel3d155

immigration is very good for economic growth

This is certainly true for US-style immigration, where immigrants are higher-skilled and likely to speak English. But surely the effect is comparatively worse for European-style immigration, where immigrants tend to be much poorer, often refugees from religious third-world countries, and have a low chance of speaking the native language. All of which complicates integration and increases anti-immigration sentiment.

Reply
[-]ACCount3d2-1

Don't mistake my "very good for economic growth" for "any good for social cohesion".

I make no such claim. My claim is that there is a lot of economic incentives to overlook the negatives of immigration.

My honest opinion is that immigration is not going to be good for social cohesion unless the immigration policy is nothing short of immaculate. And the gap between "spectacularly failed" and "nothing short of immaculate" is where most immigration policies currently reside.

Reply3
[-]ChristianKl4d10

I don't think it's just a matter of being cosmopolitan. Being cosmopolitan is more of a general political view. If I remember right Merkel's decision was due to her experience of being asked by a young struggling and fearful refugee whether Merkel thought it was right for her to be deported.
It's not easy to sleep with answering "Yes". The political consequences of her decisions were pretty catastrophic, but it's clear that it was the decision that lead to easier sleep. 

Reply
[-]MondSemmel3d31

If I remember right Merkel's decision was due to her experience of being asked by a young struggling and fearful refugee whether Merkel thought it was right for her to be deported.

I don't see why I'd believe any career politician when they claim that a particular one-off event (that seems well-suited for journalistic reports) fundamentally changed their mind about a topic. And in the first place, did she even claim this to be the reason?

Reply
[-]ChristianKl3d20

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/16/angela-merkel-comforts-teenage-palestinian-asylum-seeker-germany?utm_source=chatgpt.com is the event in question and it's not exactly an event that showed her in her best light. It's the kind of event where it makes sense that someone who's not a psychopath would have sleep less nights over it. 

If you think this event is not the reason the policy changed soon afterwards, you would need to find a different explanation. I don't think that inner-CDU party politics in that year would account for that. 

It's also German party politics, and my priors for what motivates German career politicians comes from private interactions in contexts where people have no reason to lie about motivations for political purposes.

Reply
[-]MondSemmel3d20

I found that event online, but not the claim that this was what motivated the shift in policy.

Reply
[-]ChristianKl3d20

I did a bit more research and it seems less clear than in my memory. In her book, Merkel does start the discussion of why the shift in policy happened with that episode, but then talks that the concrete episode was six weeks later when she felt she was forced to act "Wenn
Europa es nicht zulassen wollte, dass es Tote auf der Autobahn
geben würde, musste etwas geschehen. -> If Europe didn't want to allow deaths on the highway, something had to be done."

Interestingly, Horst Seehofer from the CSU who was later one of the voices criticizing the decision simply stayed out of it by not being reachable by telephone. 

Reply
[-]mruwnik3d81

Yet, despite there being some sour spots, this immigration wave has been absorbed surprisingly well and has enjoyed broad public support.

 

The two situations are very different.

Ukrainians have been cheap labour in Poland for a decade or so. They look pretty much the same, speak a similar language (Polish and Ukrainian are sort of mutually understandable), have sort of similar culture (at least if you squint a bit), and above all, are oppressed by Russia. Poland remembers Russian oppression, so it's a lot easier to sympathise. Ukrainians are viewed as hard workers who are willing to do the jobs that no one else wants (basically the role of Poles in other countries). And above all they cross the border legally. They might not always legalise their stay properly, but who hasn't skirted the law here or there?

The immigrants being pushed across by Lukashenko look different (when a black person started working in a shop in a neighboring town, people would go there specially to see him), don't speak a common language (they often don't even speak English), aren't coming to do proper work (construction and cleaning), aren't crossing legally, and don't even really want to live in Poland (they want to get to Germany). 

Personally I support protecting the Belarus border (though I'd like it to be done in a way that doesn't further disrupt the already very fragile populations of bison and lynx) for game theoretic reasons, and support accepting Ukrainians for humanitarian reasons, but from talking to people I often get the impression that for them it boils down to cultural reasons.

Reply
[-]Jazi Zilber3d10

Regarding fences. In Israel, high quality fences were shown to be practically impenetrable. Except by trained and sophisticated soldiers of Hamas, different story!).

 

On the border with Egypt, there used to be thousands crossings. The fence took it down to ~10/year or less. In other 3 directions, too , Israel built fences that are pretty much blocking passage. 

 

Is Poland's "border wall" isn't working, it's because it's not well built enough. And I understand the forest issues. Still decent walls can be built. And you install cameras and sensors and it's pretty reliable. 

Reply
[-]Martin Sustrik3d30

Also the Iron Curtain was pretty effective, at least in Czechoslovakia. The people who managed to get across to the West had to do quite insane things, like flying a rogalo or whatnot.

Reply
Moderation Log
More from Martin Sustrik
View more
Curated and popular this week
16Comments

The discourse on immigration to Europe is dominated by the migrants from Middle East and Africa in countries such as France, Britain or Germany.

At the same time, a very different dynamic exhibits in Poland, yet it is often implicitly waved away as just another case of the same thing. This lazy “think big and abstract, ignore the pesky on-the-ground details” attitude serves no one’s interests, least of all Europe’s.

In August of that year, Belarussian leader Aleksandr Lukashenko began offering “tourist” visas to huge numbers of African and Middle Eastern migrants, allowing them to enter Belarus, before forcing them to cross the Polish border. Lukashenko wanted to push “migrants and drugs” on EU member states that had opposed his domestic political crackdown. Suddenly, tens of thousands of migrants with no connection to Poland were pouring over the border, which at that time had no physical barrier and was lightly patrolled. Lukashenko hoped to exploit Poland’s need to comply with EU and international humanitarian law to destabilize the country’s politics.

In the initial wave of crossings, many vulnerable families crossed over from Belarus. But some of the migrants were single young men who were prone to fighting with border guards. Poland’s PiS government implemented a policy of automatically returning captured migrants to Belarus—a method of return known as “pushbacks.” Human rights advocates denounced the policy as a violation of the principle of non-refoulement, the international legal stipulation that refugees may not be returned to a country in which they are in serious danger. Initially, Poland’s liberals joined the condemnations.

But the government’s toughness proved popular: two-thirds of Poles feared the border situation would spiral into war and large majorities opposed accepting the crossers as refugees. Poland erected a border wall; Belarus provided migrants with ladders and wire cutters. The crossings continued. So did the pushbacks.

— Leo Greenberg: The Immigration Lesson Liberals Don't Want to Face

Emotionally, I lean very much toward the pro-immigration, pro-human-rights side of the debate, but setting emotions aside and looking at the issue from a pure game-theoretic perspective, it is not clear how is that going to solve the problem.

Lukashenko knows at a visceral level that an influx of migrants from foreign cultures tends to destabilize the political landscape of the receiving country. Here, a study by Laurenz Guenther provides numbers:

The grey bars represent voters’ attitude towards immigration. Vast majority of voters feel that immigration should be made harder. Yet, all political parties, including the conservative CDU, believe that immigration should be made easier.

That was in 2013. And as you would expect in a functioning democracy, no policy preference, if it’s this salient, will remain unanswered for long. Just four years later, there’s AfD on the stage and it’s growing strong:

Here, Matt Yglesias provides an anecdote to show the above dynamic is perceived by the voters:

These charts resonate with what I heard from some older people at an AfD rally I attended in Munich during the 2017 federal election campaign. These people said they were longtime supporters of the Christian Social Union, [i.e. the conservatives in the chart above] […] They were annoyed that lots of foreign journalists were characterizing AfD voters as neo-Nazis or something, because in their view they were just voting to uphold the immigration policies of Helmut Kohl and many other mainstream German politicians of the past who nobody thought were Nazis. I raised the point that AfD really does have alarming neo-Nazi ties, and they kind of got annoyed and said their first choice would be for the Christian Democrats to be more restrictionist on immigration, but what are you going to do?

Lukashenko is taking advantage of this dynamic. He weaponizes immigrants to destabilize the political landscape in Poland. But how should Poland react?

Just sticking to the old, lose immigration policies is not going to work. Lukashenko can escalate and do so at a low cost. He can literally funnel half of Africa into Poland, which would in turn mean a full breakdown of the Polish political system.

To make things more complex, the legal framework governing refugees is based on the Geneva Convention, which itself was shaped by the somber experiences of the Second World War. At the time of its adoption, however, nobody imagined that the right to asylum might one day be deliberately exploited by a hostile state.

Fighting back against Lukashenko thus means violating Geneva Convention, which, in turn, means that the whole thing poses a direct challenge to the credibility of the international legal order. (And yes, it’s not hard to guess what kind of leader would benefit from such a breakdown of trust.)

In theory, international law could be adjusted to address these new challenges. In practice, however, such changes are extremely difficult. The international legal system is designed, for reasons that there’s no need to explain, to last, not to be revised.

All that said, while Poland was agonizing over the arrival of thousands of migrants from Belarus, the war in Ukraine broke out, sending millions of Ukrainian refugees across the border and today, roughly 7% of Poland’s population is Ukrainian. Yet, despite there being some sour spots, this immigration wave has been absorbed surprisingly well and has enjoyed broad public support.

It is a hint that the policy of accepting refugees is not yet dead.

But how should a new policy, resistant to adversarial attacks, look like is far from clear. Immigration from South America to Spain is another example of a large immigration wave that works well, which makes one think of avoiding the political backlash by accepting predominantly refugees from culturally and linguistically similar countries. But try telling that to Jordan or Lebanon.

As for now, there is no clear answer and governments are drifting gradually toward more restrictive approaches, which isn’t great news for the migrants, nor for the affected countries themselves.