I hesitantly second this, but it's hesitantly because as someone already on some antidepressants, well, they only work so well at getting me to see my environment and body as configurable. I've been doing incrementally better lately via realizing I can swing up (ie, start with tiny motions and then make each motion slightly larger) in a wide variety of contexts, and in general I feel more efficacy at simply directly correcting my apprehensions.
Do you have any internet weirdo ideas for how to find the right antidepressant that psychiatrists don't want us to know would love for us to know, but don't know themselves either?
I've found that there's a gradient from "The environment is hostile and static" to "the environment is yours to use, to help you towards your goals", and that my mood decides where I land on this gradient, with depression landing in the far left end. The environment also feels smaller the less depressed I am.
I'm not sure this will be any help, but dopamine makes me feel better short term (probably because energy and mood correlate so well) and socializing makes me feel better long-term. My depression went away when I started socializing for hours a day. Stimulants also makes me feel really good, but I think that's because they practically lower my social needs to zero (which means that they're fulfilled until the stimulants wear off).
I don't know anything about antidepressants, but I've probably tried everything else, and for some reason, socializing more wasn't one of the 100 first things that I tried, so I learned a lot of minor things. I found some other methods which worked, but they're much too complicated to share here. Just know that it relates to manipulating ones core beliefs and perception so that the world appears more positive and meaningful, and allowing yourself and your ego/identity to be part of said world.
How did you manage to change your perception and core beliefs to make the world feel more positive and meaningful? Because of my depression, my mom keeps insisting that I try DBT (Dialectical Behavior Therapy). But I’ve already been through costly therapy before and ended up disappointed, so I can’t really trust it anymore. That’s why I’ve been trying to find ways to cope on my own, and I really want to hear some concrete methods for that.
I can give you lots of small examples of different things, hopefully you can use these or become inspired to try similar things.
One thing I did was ask myself a lot of difficult questions. As you'd expect of a depressed person, I came up with a lot of negative answers - but I kept catching myself lying. None of the negativity was actually true. Every time, the truth was something neutral or even positive, I just needed the courage to actually consider the question. When a doubt or problem is resolved, you will experience relief, something will "click", and you should feel a burst of energy. As with phobias, most fantasies are much worse than reality could ever be, so they shrink when confronted. Speaking of which, the experience of the world is a projection of oneself, everything is colored by ones mood and way of thinking. Difficult philosophical questions are always symptoms rather than causes, but you do feel better if you solve one (although some of them have no asnwer). You will see what you look for, and your experience will be filled with whatever you focus on. Perception is a filter and interpreter. As for the "real" perspective, it does not exist.
I tended to my mental associations, and noticed that they had become tainted/stained, and decided to clean them up. For instance, I might love the taste of cola, but dislike the Cola company, and drink it with the knowledge that I'm drinking dangerous sugar water which is harmful to my teeth. My brain is basically mixing the pleasant experience with related unpleasant knowledge, ruining it. But why? Harmful things are not more harmful just because one enjoys them. It's all the brain making itself misery as a way of defending itself (usually against imaginary worries).
You might also remember enjoying a soft bed as a child, actually savoring it, but notice that you as an adult connect the bed with negative things like dust mites, the price of the bed, the effort of making it look nice... In short, that you reject things as you experience them, because you deem them unclean or hostile in a way. A place which feels like home is an entirely different experience from a place which feels public or hostile, and I think that high neuroticism pushes one away from the homely perception. I think this might also harm sleep quality, because why wouldn't it? If you think your environment is hostile, your brain will prefer light sleep, and you'll never feel at ease. But more importantly, the difference in experience is like hugging a family member vs hugging a stranger, in the latter case, you reject the experience you have as you're experiencing it - you feel less, you create a barrier between yourself and the moment (this is likely similar to the causes of derealization/depersonalization) and close off yourself to the world.
I tried recalling earlier versions of myself (e.g. childhood) and to reconnect with perspectives which gave things more value. I started thinking more locally and subjectively, and to allow myself to participate in things rather than being a passive observer. I also decided to be more vulnerable (this is basically the same as being open) and to make my mind a less brutal place (if the pressure is too high, pleasant thoughts scatter immediately, and softer aspects of ones personality go into hiding). I lowered my standards a bit as to raise the baseline value of everything, focused on the journey rather than the destination. I also started seeing successes as gains, rather than imagining ideal futures and considering deviations from them as losses.
I also reflected over morality and things like egoism a lot. It turns out that society had told me a lot of wrong things, and I started following the actual rules rather than the ones I was taught. I also allowed myself to be myself, which gave me back some agency and identity.
A short, practical method is to start with something that you want to be true, and then looking for evidence that it's true. Your brain will find it, and then update its beliefs accordingly, it's good at that. A mechanism which might work against you would be your brain looking for flaws in positive beliefs in order to protect you against disappointment and such, it's also really good at that. This doesn't mean that the thing in question is true or false. The truth actually doesn't matter too much. Belief, confidence, meaning - they're basically self-fulfilling. Anything is possible in the mind. Reality has limits, but they're not as relevant as they seem, and your well-being doesn't depend on what's true, but what you believe to be true.
Finally, think about Vikings. Their version of heaven is one filled with war. They managed to find meaning and value in something which terrifies most people today, and who is to say that their interpretation is wrong? Reflecting over how seemingly negative things are necessary helps one to appreciate them. I also find that there's beauty to be found in most things, and that beauty is also anti-nihilistic.
I could keep going like this for multiple pages, and every example listen here can also be expanded to multiple pages. I'm not sure which part here is the most useful.
Here is a recent recommendation: https://open.substack.com/pub/chrismasterjohnphd/p/beat-from-depression-without-ssris?r=l073q&utm_medium=ios
What antidepressants do for me is make bullshit and setbacks much more tolerable. This is not necessarily a good thing if the bullshit is the kind that one ought not to be tolerating in the first place.
But I restarted Wellbutrin just to see what would happen, and suddenly the original recording had become the kind of song you can’t describe because you sound too sappy, so all you can say is it brings you to tears.
I empathize with this. I remember listening to this song after starting SSRIs and almost crying because it felt so different. Like my mind had all of these rooms of emotions I hadn't been in in 10 years, that were more subtle raw and transcendental and 4-dimensional, that were now opening up.
I just wanted to comment in order to empathize with your terrible misfortune regarding mold. I am similarly vulnerable to mold poisoning and have found both the first and second order effects of mold to be devastating. I guess I want to say that I feel your pain and I'm glad that you got better.
Unlike you, SSRIs were my first attempt. Even after taking them for three months, they didn’t work, so I eventually ended up going to a major hospital. It was only after being prescribed a large amount of benzodiazepines and doxylamine sleep aids that I was finally able to sleep. I think it’s about time I asked my doctor about Wellbutrin. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Sorry to hear about the mold and I'm glad antidepressants worked for you! Anything that messes with hormones/brain seems to be ymmv given the long side effect sheets that the drug manufacturers publish alongside the drug. One of my friends on antidepressants phrased it as "antidepressants don't make you happy per se but you feel like there's a lower bound to the sadness," and others needed to experiment a bunch so they definitely work but it's unclear which one exactly sometimes
I also recommend using this medical framing, where you take antidepressants, as a medical treatment for depression, if you have depression.
It’s amazing how much smarter everyone else gets when I take antidepressants.
It makes sense that the drugs work on other people, because there’s nothing in me to fix. I am a perfect and wise arbiter of not only my own behavior but everyone else’s, which is a heavy burden because some of ya’ll are terrible at life. You date the wrong people. You take several seconds longer than necessary to order at the bagel place. And you continue to have terrible opinions even after I explain the right one to you. But only when I’m depressed. When I’m not, everyone gets better at merging from two lanes to one.
This effect is not limited by the laws of causality or time. Before I restarted Wellbutrin, my partner showed me this song.
My immediate reaction was, “This is fine, but what if it were sung in the style of Johnny Cash singing Hurt?” My partner recorded that version on GarageBand for my birthday, and I loved it, which means I was capable of enjoying things and thus not suffering from distorted cognition, just in case you were wondering. But I restarted Wellbutrin just to see what would happen, and suddenly the original recording had become the kind of song you can’t describe because you sound too sappy, so all you can say is it brings you to tears. My partner couldn’t tell the difference, so my theory is that because I was the one who took the drug to make the song better, only I remember the old, mediocre version.
The effect extends to physical objects. As previously mentioned, I spent the first half of 2024 laid up with mold poisoning. For about half of that time, I knew the problem was under the bed* (I’d recently bought a storage bed that was completely surrounded with drawers). In that time I bought dozens of air filters, spent $4k on getting my entire house scrubbed and set up a ventilation system under my bed. I did everything except replace the mattress. This was due to the mattress being too heavy for any human being to lift and everyone was too busy to help me.
And even if I had found mold in the mattress, what could I have done about it? The websites for mattresses and bed frames are labyrinths that require feats of strength and skill to defeat. Nor was it possible to get the mattress out of my apartment, so it would just continue leaking the spores in a slightly different place.
Then I restarted a second antidepressant (Abilify, 2mg). The mattress was still too heavy for me, but suddenly light enough that it wasn’t an unspeakable imposition to ask my partner to flip it against the wall. And at the exact same time, the manufacturer’s website simplified itself so I could not only order a copy of my current mattress, but ask for a discount because my old one was so new (it worked! They give half off if you waive return rights). Less than a week after I started Abilify I was sleeping on a new mattress on a new frame, the old mattress and frame were at the dump, and my mold symptoms began to ease.
Given how well they work, taking antidepressants seems downright prosocial, so why are some people reluctant to try them? Sometimes they’re concerned that antidepressants work too well and turn everyone into a happy zombie. This is based on the fallacy that antidepressants work on you rather than on your environment. The fact that everyone is suddenly better at lane merges doesn’t make me incapable of being sad about medical setbacks. If having your world-is-easy meter set two steps higher seems like a bad thing, consider that that may itself be a symptom of your world-is-easy meter being set too low.
Pills aren’t the only way to make the outside world bend to your will, of course. Diet and exercise have a great reputation in this arena, matched only by the complete lack of effect of wishing for good diet and exercise. Luckily, one of the ways antidepressants change the environment is making weights lighter, lung capacity higher, and food take fewer steps to prepare. So if you’ve spent a few years knowing you should improve your diet and exercise routine without managing to get over the hump to actually doing it, maybe it’s time to give the everything-is-easier pill a try. Especially because the benefits extend not only to you, but to everyone on the highway with you.
I’ve had an unusually good experience with antidepressants and psychiatrists. The first two antidepressants I tried worked very well for me (the second one is only for when things get really bad). I didn’t have to cycle through psychiatrists much either.
The most popular antidepressants are SSRIs, which I’ve never taken. My understanding is they are less likely (and slower) to work and have a worse side-effect profile than Wellbutrin, whose dominant side effects are weight loss and increased libido (but also insomnia and a slight increase in seizure risk). I’ve heard of good reasons not to start with Wellbutrin, like a family history of seizures or being underweight, but (I AM AN INTERNET WEIRDO NOT A DOCTOR) they seem underutilized to me.
Thanks to Patrick LaVictoire and the Roots of Progress Blog Building Fellowship for comments and suggestions. Thanks to CoFoundation and my Patreon patrons for financial support.
*Medicine being what it is I’m still only 95% that this was the cause, and was less certain yet before I got the mattress off the frame and examined it