the user was attempting to use Kimi and kind of deserves it.
. . . could you expand on this? I've been thinking - and talking, and planning - in terms of "everyone using AI should try to use opensource models instead of closed frontier models, to undercut the labs doing existentially dangerous stuff". If that's wrong, I want to know!
open weight models can be trivially stripped of any guardrails they might have.
That's an interesting point, but I'm not clear on how me using them - while not doing anything guardrail-requiring - makes the situation worse.
they should immediately be banned outside of certified research organizations.
If I had my way, we'd do that, and also ban them inside certified research organizations, and do the same for closed models, and ban the research organizations, and ban the certifier for good measure. But starting from where we're at, I'm still not clear why Kimi-use would be more verboten than ChatGPT-use.
(I'm not using "I'm not clear" rhetorically, btw. I genuinely don't know why that would be a decisive factor, and suspect I'd agree if I understood your position better. Enlighten me?)
the arguments parallel those for nuclear non-proliferation. and will become obvious and visceral in the aftermath of the first AI-enhanced terrorist attack.
suppose https://abliteration.ai/ does everything right and maintains lab-grade security and misuse countermeasures. the more clones of it there are, the more likely that Bubba's Crab Shack and Unshackled AI ($9.95/month) is less cautious and permits criminal and terrorist organizations to use or abuse their service to plan AI-enhanced misdeeds.
worse, capital investment in open weight model enabled services will likely make them useful on a wider variety of hardware, including cheaper hardware, accelerating proliferation, one-click guardrail stripping ("you were only suppose to use it for porn" they'll lament at the trial), and raising the chance that we die to literal comicbook supervillains, which is too pathetic.
worse, capital investment in open weight model enabled services will likely make them useful on a wider variety of hardware, including cheaper hardware, accelerating proliferation
I don't think terrorists etc are being meaningfully held back by open weight models being too expensive to use intensively or too big to run locally, though? And the effect of using (shackled) opensource AI (run on one's own hardware, and/or served by companies disconnected from the ones which created/stole it) seems negligible on this. I may still be missing something here.
(To be clear, this news has changed my mind about whether I'd want to use Kimi-run-by-Moonshot (or even run-by-an-org-closely-partnered-with-Moonshot) for anything, but I still don't see a problem with - for example - getting it via DigitalOcean.)
Given how good the top models are at identifying evaluations vs normal use, why not train them to evaluate distillation and insert poison pill text to ruin the results?
Getting caught without punishment doesn't actually train the companies to stop it just changes the price calculation. Negative results is a whole different ballgame. Though I will be pleased if China actually does step up and do something here. Bodes well for future cooperation in that case.
A lot of bad guys try to use Claude to do bad things. Mostly they fail. We think.
Anthropic has disrupted a bunch of them, and offers an extensive report. If Anthropic is sharing the worst cases, or anything close to them, things are actually looking good on the misuse front for closed models, even better than I thought.
There’s a bit of Arson, Murder and Jaywalking there. One of these things, many would say, is not like the others.
I do not agree, especially given the details we will see later, and given that distillation enables the other six via, as the report says, ‘driving performance on nearly every task’ via transfering Claude’s cognitive skills, without transferring its safeguards.
Indeed, distillation is by far the most important threat in this report, and the part of the report that will have the most impact.
By exposing Chinese attempts at systematic fraudulent distillation of Claude, Anthropic has embarrassed and potentially antagonized the Chinese. This starts with ‘all the top Chinese labs made efforts to distill Claude, which we mitigated and stopped,’ which is already an issue that was also covered by a joint advisory from NSA/CISA/FBI two days before the full report.
The bigger issue is how the Chinese labs were trying to distill Claude. Distillation attempts require lots of realistic queries, so DeepSeek, Moonshot and Xiaomi each sent lots of user queries directly to Claude. At least Moonshot then gave the results back to its users as if these were Kimi outputs.
That’s going to be a problem.
Breaking Unrelated News
This is unrelated to today’s post but you need to know the basic facts now, so:
Yesterday I cautioned that the media and others were reading far too much into Trump’s statements. Alas, in keeping with ‘every day there is breaking news,’ we have now seen Trump say the things he had not yet said. The new statement is very different, resolving the ambiguity from yesterday morning.
He explicitly declared AI existential risk to be a ‘hoax’ on par with (his words) the ‘Russia hoax’ or climate change. This is very, very bad news. I fear he may have crossed a rhetorical Rubicon that will be difficult to step back from once he better understands the situation, and once future incidents change the game.
While we all process the implications, I urge everyone: Please do not make this any more partisan or personal than it already is. Please do not attack Republicans, or Trump. That will only make things worse. Emphasize helpful voices on all sides.
That applies no matter what additional statements may come, and I will offer full coverage of that unfortunate situation later this week.
Table of Contents
How To Not Tell a Fable
The classifiers are hella annoying sometimes, but Anthropic says they work.
The one exception was an attempted distillation attack on Fable by Zhipu, but there were enhanced safeguards in place and Zhipu switched to going after Opus.
Bad Dudes Tend To Be Relatively Unsophisticated
If Bad Dudes were more often sophisticated and Good At Job, the world would look very different.
Luckily, Bad Dudes are usually unsophisticated and Bad At Job.
(Everyone else is mostly similar, but less so and less reliably.)
AI, for both better and worse, turns Bad At Job into Good At Job, making it less relevant that the humans are Bad At Job via doing the things. Here are Anthropic’s big themes:
You need fewer less sophisticated humans, who are less Good at Job, to Do Thing.
For most things, that’s great. This report is about the exceptions.
You especially need less in order to adapt when someone defends against you, and to develop new methods.
Particular Bad Dudes
GTG-20006 is a Russian espionage operation linked to Midnight Blizzard. They had a standard set of cyber attack tools. They used AI to monitor how well their tools evaded detection, and iterated until security defenses did not detect their malware, then launched AI-automated attacks, including AI phishing operations from AI-registered domains.
Targets varied, including Ukrainian government, military and diplomatic staff, various government agencies and defense-industrial companies linked to Ukraine, and Ukraine’s drone supply chain. They took over WhatsApp accounts via headless browsers and targeted surveillance cameras. All of it was automated.
GTG-50014 were smash-and-grab opportunists associated with the ShinyHunters collective. They are doing the standard opportunistic things, but AI let them scale and cast a wide net looking for vulnerable systems, targeting bulk data theft and potential extortion. The whole thing is basically ‘vibe hacking,’ with ‘living off the land,’ having the AI look around and use whatever it finds, seeking any vulnerability at all, rather than having a plan.
GTG-10007 was a Chinese-speaking espionage operation, likely in Changsha in China’s Hunan province. Claude was used to automate workflows and form agent swarms, the same as any other coding task, except here it was vulnerability research, testing and exploit design. Roughly fifty organizations were targeted, and an education-technology company was compromised.
GTG-50020 is a Russian-speaking, financially-motivated actor, historically targeting hotel booking and financial technology platforms, that pivoted to attack the AI industry and steal API keys via prompt injecting sandboxes. They attacked 30 companies, but they never achieved their objective, which was access to a pre-release Claude model.
GTG-50029 was a French-speaking hacktivist who targeted European political and affiliated entities, an example of uplift for unsophisticated threat actors, who then managed to compromise 14 of 42 WordPress sites including via an undocumented race condition and steal users’ political opinions, a mass attack on privacy.
Influence Operations
Influence operations are getting larger and more sophisticated.
It is remarkable how well social media has held up so far in the age of AI. Threat actors spin up hundreds of accounts on a regular basis, all providing social proof for each other, and we complain but the defenders are mostly winning.
Building such campaigns builds a signature that Anthropic often detects. When Anthropic finds an operation in the planning stage, or discovers one afterwards, they ban the accounts and use this to strengthen their detection mechanisms. But of course such actors can always get new accounts and try again.
Trends listed:
The final takeaway is what I see from the outside. These campaigns are often remarkably ineffective, individually and in general, and much more boogeymen so far than actually influential. Hopefully that will last.
These operations mostly (but not entirely) target third world areas, where there is less competition, that is less sophisticated, in the media and influence ecosystems.
They list nine:
Overall, I was not impressed. It does not seem like such folks are getting much done, at least not via Claude. There’s a thin line between a lot of this and Ordinary Politics. If this is as bad as it gets then this is very good news.
Surveillance Operations
And they did it in violation of the Terms of Service. How dare they.
In many cases this was ‘analyze a ton of social media posts,’ including by the state to target dissidents and dissident groups, or groups likely to cause trouble. Most of the groups were Chinese or Iranian. In one case the Iranians targeted Jews. Sometimes malware was involved.
Are Iran and China the only places trying to do this level of AI surveillance? Or are they the only ones crazy enough to use Claude?
Anthropic highlights GTG-50027, a single independent consultant in Bamako, who used Claude as part of Mali’s state intelligence service (ANSE) to target roughly 25 million SIM cards. This one was not really disrupted. Further work was prevented, but the system had already been deployed and it remains deployed.
This is fundamentally not a solvable problem. Anthropic and other AI companies are in the business of selling intelligence, and there are also open models providing intelligence. There is no way to fully stop all forms of mass surveillance, domestically or otherwise, given the alternative options. Claude does not provide that big an advantage here over open models. If some people are out there to analyze public information, you can slow them down but they are going to succeed.
Another operation stood out: GTG-30005, due to its target:
That goes hand in hand with the next section: Use of Claude in conventional weapons.
Conventional Weapons
This refers to software for such weapons, as well as targeting and control systems. There are six cases here: three in China, two in Russia and one in Yemen.
First there are the weapon systems development cases:
It is a thin line between ordinary software development, and software that assists with conventional weapons. It is no surprise developers would attempt to use Claude. Indeed, presumably lots of Western weapons developers also use Claude.
Again, this happens to be a particular use we do not like, which is Not So Different.
Biological Misuse
How much is being attempted in practice? They have five cases.
Regional use controls were evaded, but the five case studies here look like scientists. They are doing dual use things, where it is not clear that harm was intended.
The first two cases seem like clear cases of Do Not Want, even if the people involved thought they were helping. The other three are less clear. None of the cases were the kind of dangerous use of AI we worry about, where AI provides major uplift. AI was being used because AI is highly useful at ordinary tasks.
The New York Times report on this, with the headline ‘Anthropic Says It Blocked Possible Efforts To Build Biological Weapons,’ seems highly overstated here.
I call this a huge success story, assuming Anthropic isn’t hiding worse things. These aren’t even fully Bad Dudes, only misguided ones.
Scams and Fraud
Ah, good to get back to Ordinary Decent Crime. Except, you know, at scale.
They only offer one example, but it’s a fun one.
GTG-15001: Fake dating app network. Love it. Now we’re talking. To AIs. A full network of 20 fake dating apps, with more than 4,700 distinct AI personas that talked to over 25,000 unique individuals over two weeks in April, with swipe feeds that were 25% real people and 75% AIs. For some of the 25%, workers were hired to choose among three candidate AI replies, thus proving good game design, and paid per message. Claude ran the AI personas, because nothing but the best will do. I might be mangling the details a bit.
Messaging is metered, which is how they make money. That was a hint.
I mean, yeah, yeah, scam and fraud, poor fake users, very sad.
But this is clearly the best case study.
The weird part is this is the best case study, and here the only one. Where are all the others? Again this is a huge success story.
Illicit Fraudulent Distillation
This is the controversial one.
If you want to argue that distillation using your own queries and the model outputs, or data otherwise acquired above board, is fine, I respectfully disagree with you for practical reasons and for the same reasons I support copyright and patent protections, but I understand why you would think that.
If you think that it is okay to then use a ‘Chain of Thought extractor’ as an exploit, as part of that effort, I disagree with you a lot more, and I think you’re clearly in the wrong, but I understand why some people think intellectual property is not real and you should be able to just steal it and are willing to cheer for Chinese companies to steal American IP.
If you think it is okay to do this by secretly rerouting sensitive customer queries to Claude, or using accounts created with stolen credit cards, login credentials and API keys to harvest data?
Then I’m sorry, you’re just flat out wrong, that is obviously not okay.
I mention those particular things because that is what is going on.
Meanwhile, there is an ongoing war where Anthropic tries to block various prompts that attempt to extract the Chain of Thought, and the Chinese and other attackers try to develop new extraction methods.
Also, it gets worse:
The report includes the example of asking Claude to analyze CCTV surveillance footage from hundreds of Chinese cameras, and exposing live Russian government credentials. It can get ugly out there.
Your response can be ‘well Anthropic is flat out lying about this’ but short of that there is no way to excuse the behaviors in question.
All of this looks like it is in direct violation of numerous laws, including Chinese laws.
In many of these cases, if nothing else, Article 39 of PIPL was definitely broken by DeepSeek, Moonshot and Xiaomi, and likely Criminal Law Art. 235a as well:
That’s in addition to everyone breaking the Anti-Unfair Competition Law, of using data lawfully held by another business operator through “fraud, coercion, or circumventing or damaging technical or management measures” where this disrupts market competition order. Seems to apply here.
Oh, and all of this involved Ordinary Decent Fraud, as in Criminal Law Art. 196 and Art. 177a.
And then there’s Interim Measures for the Management of Generative AI Services, Article 7.
There are six particular cases.
As in, all the cool kids are doing it. That’s how they are the Chinese cool kids.
How do the Chinese have the best open models?
GTG-16005: CoT distillation and AI R&D campaign by Alibaba (Qwen / Tongyi Lab).
GTG-16002: Moonshot serves Claude instead of Kimi and collects exchanges for model training.
No, Lyman. I get why you would say that, but we do not steal user data, even if the user was attempting to use Kimi and kind of deserves it.
GTG-16001: DeepSeek serves Claude instead of its own models and collects exchanges for model training.
GTG-16006: Zhipu distillation, AI R&D and targeting cyber capabilities.
That’s right. They tried to forcibly distill Fable’s cyber capabilities in order to put them into an open model. Luckily, this did not work and they had to pivot to Opus 4.6 where the safeguards were weaker.
GTG-16008: Distillation campaign by Xiaomi
This one was only ~400k messages, using saved user messages to seed the exchanges.
Distilling Claude is the business model.
What You Gonna Do About It, Punk?
The arms race continues. If you’re wondering why you can’t see the CoT, part of it is to guard it against supervision pressure a la An Alien Mind, but the main reason is avoiding distillation.
Google has a clause where if you are attempting to distill Gemini, their plan is to intentionally sabotage the responses, to damage your operation. I believe this is the correct policy. If you have strong evidence the user is doing crime, to try and steal your stuff, as in a giant network of fraudulent accounts being used for distillation, then yes, you should be able to screw with them, not merely ban their accounts.
I see this as very distinct from the idea of silently degrading responses when users attempt to do AI R&D. That’s unacceptable and hostile, either refuse the requests or don’t, since this risks hitting normal work and now everyone has to be paranoid about being hit.
Distillation via massive fraudulent account networks and CoT extraction attacks is very obviously different. That is not a trigger you hit by accident, or without mens rea. You know what you did. If you play that game, you deserve whatever you get and more.
Good News, Everyone
Mostly the report is good news. Yes, there are Bad Dudes out there, trying to do various bad things. Occasionally they do something bad. It all adds up to not much. We happily accept this level of malicious use.
The details of many of these operations are pretty wild. This was a short summary.
Of course, there is also this, especially given no mention of North Korea.
A Very Different Read of The Report
I read this report as mostly good news, as saying that the situation is basically fine, and also as therefore not big news. There were so many other stories that seemed much bigger that same week.
Ryan Fedasiuk does not see it that way. He overstates his case, in that he claims this was front page news everywhere, which it wasn’t. But he sees this, together with the NSA/CISA/FBI advisory on the distillation efforts, as fundamentally altering the US-China relationship and China’s attitude towards Anthropic, and China’s relationship to its top labs.
I do expect a substantial change in PRC’s relationship with its top labs, after revelations that they silently shipped a lot of consumer queries directly to Anthropic, including requests from China’s security services.
China threatened ‘resolute countermeasures’ in response to the advisory, a day before the full report got issued on the 10th. Then on the 11th Mao Ning at the MFA briefing did respond to the report in particular by saying China opposes attempts to ‘smear China by distorting facts.’
An editorial in China Daily supports the claim that the reactions are linked, although I can only imagine what it would be like to have America represented by looking at an editorial in one newspaper, even if it was e.g. The New York Times.
Julian’s full report says that China is interpreting the call to Pace the Frontier as being primarily about slowing China down. Or at least, that’s what they are saying. You would expect them to say that ahead of the Summit no matter their true posture and level of understanding.
Anthropic is by far the most China-hostile of the American AI labs, calling for strong action on chips and distillation as core parts of their overall strategic posture. China is highly reasonably interpreting that, plus this kind of report and the full cutting off of all Chinese access to Claude, as being hostile. This could then by association make China less inclined to cooperate on catastrophic or existential risks, as they too are vulnerable to this kind of cognitive mistake.
I would as always caution against the tendency to treat each day’s developments as something that permanently alters or solidifies attitudes and relationships and conflicts. Every month looks very different from the previous month. I have lost track of the number of individual moves in the game that I have been told ‘inevitably’ led to huge permanent changes, without which maybe things would have gone differently. Such claims are almost always wrong.