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habryka446
1
Reputation is lazily evaluated When evaluating the reputation of your organization, community, or project, many people flock to surveys in which you ask randomly selected people what they think of your thing, or what their associations with your organization, community or project are.  If you do this, you will very reliably get back data that looks like people are indifferent to you and your projects, and your results will probably be dominated by extremely shallow things like "do the words in your name invoke positive or negative associations". People largely only form opinions of you or your projects when they have some reason to do that, like trying to figure out whether to buy your product, or join your social movement, or vote for you in an election. You basically never care about what people think about you while engaging in activities completely unrelated to you, you care about what people will do when they have to take any action that is related to your goals. But the former is exactly what you are measuring in attitude surveys. As an example of this (used here for illustrative purposes, and what caused me to form strong opinions on this, but not intended as the central point of this post): Many leaders in the Effective Altruism community ran various surveys after the collapse of FTX trying to understand what the reputation of "Effective Altruism" is. The results were basically always the same: People mostly didn't know what EA was, and had vaguely positive associations with the term when asked. The people who had recently become familiar with it (which weren't that many) did lower their opinions of EA, but the vast majority of people did not (because they mostly didn't know what it was).  As far as I can tell, these surveys left most EA leaders thinking that the reputational effects of FTX were limited. After all, most people never heard about EA in the context of FTX, and seemed to mostly have positive associations with the term, and the average like
leogao334
5
it's quite plausible (40% if I had to make up a number, but I stress this is completely made up) that someday there will be an AI winter or other slowdown, and the general vibe will snap from "AGI in 3 years" to "AGI in 50 years". when this happens it will become deeply unfashionable to continue believing that AGI is probably happening soonish (10-15 years), in the same way that suggesting that there might be a winter/slowdown is unfashionable today. however, I believe in these timelines roughly because I expect the road to AGI to involve both fast periods and slow bumpy periods. so unless there is some super surprising new evidence, I will probably only update moderately on timelines if/when this winter happens
sapphire5723
40
Don't Induce psychosis intentionally. Don't take psychedelics while someone probes your beliefs. Don't let anyone associated with Michael Vasser anywhere near you during an altered state. Edit: here is a different report from three years ago with the same person administering the methods:  Mike Vasser followers practice intentionally inducing psychosis via psychedelic drugs. Inducing psychosis is a verbatim self report of what they are doing. I would say they practice drug induced brain washing. TBC they would dispute the term brain washing and probably would not like the term 'followers' but I think the terms are accurate and they are certainly his intellectual descendants.  Several people have had quite severe adverse reactions (as observed by me). For example rapidly developing serious literal schizophrenia. Schizophrenia in the very literal sense of paranoid delusions and conspiratorial interpretations of other people's behavior. The local Vasserite who did the 'therapy'/'brainwashing' seems completely unbothered by this literal schizophrenia.  As you can imagine this behavior can cause substantial social disruption. Especially since the Vasserite's don't exactly believe in social harmony.  This has all precipitated serious mental health events in many other parties. Though they are less obviously serious than "they are clinically schizophrenic now".But that is a high bar. I have been very critical of cover ups in lesswrong. I'm not going to name names and maybe you don't trust me. But I have observed this all directly. If you are let people toy with your brain while you are under the influence of psychedelics you should expect high odds of severe consequences. And your friends mental health might suffer as well.   Edit: these are recent events. To my knowledge never referenced on lesswrong. 
Hazard50
1
For anyone curious about what the sPoOkY and mYsTeRiOuS Michael Vassar actually thinks about various shit, many of his friends have blogs and write about what they chat about, and he's also been on several long form podcasts. https://naturalhazard.xyz/ben_jess_sarah_starter_pack https://open.spotify.com/episode/1lJY2HJNttkwwmwIn3kyIA?si=em0lqkPaRzeZ-ctQx_hfmA https://open.spotify.com/episode/01z3WDSIHPDAOuVp1ZYUoN?si=VOtoDpw9T_CahF31WEhZXQ https://open.spotify.com/episode/2RzlQDSwxGbjloRKqCh1xg?si=XuFZB1CtSt-FbCweHtTnUA https://open.spotify.com/episode/33nrhLwrNJJtbZolZsTUGN?si=Sd0dZTANTpy8FS-RFhr4cQ
leogao148
4
people often say that limitations of an artistic medium breed creativity. part of this could be the fact that when it is costly to do things, the only things done will be higher effort

Popular Comments

Recent Discussion

In light of reading through Raemon's shortform feed, I'm making my own. Here will be smaller ideas that are on my mind.

5Hazard
For anyone curious about what the sPoOkY and mYsTeRiOuS Michael Vassar actually thinks about various shit, many of his friends have blogs and write about what they chat about, and he's also been on several long form podcasts. https://naturalhazard.xyz/ben_jess_sarah_starter_pack https://open.spotify.com/episode/1lJY2HJNttkwwmwIn3kyIA?si=em0lqkPaRzeZ-ctQx_hfmA https://open.spotify.com/episode/01z3WDSIHPDAOuVp1ZYUoN?si=VOtoDpw9T_CahF31WEhZXQ https://open.spotify.com/episode/2RzlQDSwxGbjloRKqCh1xg?si=XuFZB1CtSt-FbCweHtTnUA https://open.spotify.com/episode/33nrhLwrNJJtbZolZsTUGN?si=Sd0dZTANTpy8FS-RFhr4cQ
niplav20

Thank you for collecting those links :-)

I've listened to two or three of the interviews (and ~three other talks from a long time ago), and I still have no clue what the central claims are, what the reasoning supporting them is &c. (I understand it most for Zvi Mowshowitz and Sarah Constantin, less for Jessica Taylor, and least for Benjamin Hoffman & Vassar). I also don't know of anyone who became convinced of or even understood any of Michael Vassar's views/stances through his writing/podcasts alone—it appears to almost always happen through in-person interaction.

[If you haven't come since we started meeting at Rocky Hill Cohousing, make sure to read this for details about where to go and park.]

We're the regular Northampton area meetup for ACX readers, and (as far as I know) the only rationalist or EA meetup in the Pioneer Valley area. We started in the 2018 Meetups Everywhere event and have been going ever since, though had a dip during the COVID era. We're currently meeting every other Saturday evening for most meetups (this meetup is an exception, mainly due to the holidays and me having been out of town for some medical tests in Boston).

Please join us for rationalist discussion, drinks and snacks at:

DATE & TIME
Sunday, December 15, 2024, 5:00 PM – roughly 8:00 PM (slightly different...

Cross-posted from my NAO Notebook.

This is an edited transcript of a talk I just gave at CBD S&T, a chem-bio defence conference. I needed to submit the slides several months in advance, so I tried out a new-to-me approach where the slides are visual support only and I finalized the text of the talk later on. This does mean there are places where it would be great to have additional slides to illustrate some concepts

Additionally, this was the first time I gave a talk where I wrote out everything I wanted to say in advance. I think this made for a much less engaging talk, and for future ones I'm planning to go back to speaking from bullets.

...

1denkenberger
Sounds promising! I assume this is for one location, so have you done any modeling or estimations of what the global prevalence would be at that point? If you get lucky, it could be very low. But it also could be a lot higher if you get unlucky. Have you done any cost-effectiveness analyses? Do you think that many people would be willing to take actions to reduce transmission etc in a case where no one has gotten sick yet?
jefftk20

I assume this is for one location, so have you done any modeling or estimations of what the global prevalence would be at that point? If you get lucky, it could be very low. But it also could be a lot higher if you get unlucky.

We haven't done modeling on this, but I did write some a few months ago (Sample Prevalence vs Global Prevalence) laying out the question. It would be great if someone did want to work on this!

Have you done any cost-effectiveness analyses?

An end-to-end cost-effectiveness analysis is quite hard because it depends critically on ... (read more)

4ChristianKl
Elizabeth wrote in Truthseeking is the ground in which other principles grow about how it's good to have pursue goals with good feedback loops to stay aligned. It seems to me like SecureBio focusing on a potential pandemic is a goal where the feedback loop is worse than if you would focus on the normal variation in viruses. Knowing which flu viruses and coronaviruses varients are the the most common and growing the most, seems like straightforward problem that could be solved by NAObservatory.  What's the core reason why the NAObservatory currently doesn't provide that data and when in the future would you expect that kind of data to be easily accessible from the NAObservatory website?
4jefftk
Good question! For wastewater the reason is that the municipal treatment plants which provide samples for us have very little to gain and a lot to lose from publicity, so they generally want things like pre-review before publishing data. This means that getting to where the'd be ok with us making the data (or derived data, like variant tracking) public on an ongoing basis is a bit tricky. I do think we can make progress here, but it also hasn't been a priority. For nasal swabs the reason is that we are currently doing very little sampling and sequencing: (a) we're redoing our IRB approval after spinning out from MIT and it's going slowly, (b) we don't yet have a protocol that is giving good results, and (c) we aren't yet sampling anywhere near the number of people you'd need to know what diseases are going around. The nasal swab sampling data we do have is linked from https://data.securebio.org/sampling-metadata/ as raw reads. The raw wastewater data may or may not be available to researchers depending on how what you want to do interacts with what our partners need: https://naobservatory.org/data

Someone I know wrote this very nice post explaining the core intuition around Shapley values (which play an important role in impact assessment and cooperative games) using Venn diagrams, and I think it's great. It might be the most intuitive explainer I've come across so far. 

Incidentally, the post also won an honorable mention in 3blue1brown's Summer of Mathematical Exposition (I'm really proud of having given input on the post :).

cubefox20

Explaining the Shapley value in terms of the "synergies" (and the helpful split in the Venn diagram) makes much more intuitive sense than the more complex normal formula without synergies, which is usually just given without motivation. That being said, it requires first computing the synergies, which seems somewhat confusing for more than three players. The article itself doesn't mention the formula for the synergy function, but Wikipedia has it.

3habryka
Do you know whether the person who wrote this would be OK with crossposting the complete content of the article to LW? I would be interested in curating it and sending it out in our 30,000 subscriber curation newsletter, if they were up for it.
1agucova
Just asked him, will let you know!
1depressurize
Thanks, this is a beautiful explanation
4eggsyntax
I've been thinking of writing up a piece on the implications of very short timelines, in light of various people recently suggesting them (eg Dario Amodei, "2026 or 2027...there could be a mild delay") Here's a thought experiment: suppose that this week it turns out that OAI has found a modified sampling technique for o1 that puts it at the level of the median OAI capabilities researcher, in a fairly across-the-board way (ie it's just straightforwardly able to do the job of a researcher). Suppose further that it's not a significant additional compute expense; let's say that OAI can immediately deploy a million instances. What outcome would you expect? Let's operationalize that as: what do you think is the chance that we get through the next decade without AI causing a billion deaths (via misuse or unwanted autonomous behaviors or multi-agent catastrophes that are clearly downstream of those million human-level AI)? In short, what do you think are the chances that that doesn't end disastrously? 

I'd say that we'd have a 70-80% chance of going through the next decade without causing a billion deaths if powerful AI comes.

2eggsyntax
I realize that asking about p(doom) is utterly 2023, but I'm interested to see if there's a rough consensus in the community about how it would go if it were now, and then it's possible to consider how that shifts as the amount of time moves forward.
3Noosphere89
My guess is that for now, I'd give around a 10-30% chance to "AI winter happens for a short period/AI progress slows down" by 2027. Also, what would you consider super surprising new evidence?
2Noosphere89
This seems the likely explanation for any claim that constraints breed creativity/good things in a field, when the expectation is that the opposite outcome would occur.
1StartAtTheEnd
My own expectation is that limitations result in creativity. Writers block is usually a result of having too many possibilities/choices. If I tell you "You can write a story about anything", it's likely harder for you to think of anything than if I tell you "Write a story about an orange cat". In the latter situation, you're more limited, but you also have something to work with. I'm not sure if it's as true for computers as it is for humans (that would imply information-theoretic factors), but there's plenty of factors in humans, like analysis paralysis and the "See also" section of that page

My other explanation probably has to do with the fact that it's way easier to work with an already almost-executed object than a specification, because we are constrained to only think about a subset of possibilities for a reasonable time.

In other words, constraints are useful given that you are already severely constrained, to limit the space of possibilities.

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In an attempt to get myself to write more here is my own shortform feed. Ideally I would write something daily, but we will see how it goes.

44habryka
Reputation is lazily evaluated When evaluating the reputation of your organization, community, or project, many people flock to surveys in which you ask randomly selected people what they think of your thing, or what their associations with your organization, community or project are.  If you do this, you will very reliably get back data that looks like people are indifferent to you and your projects, and your results will probably be dominated by extremely shallow things like "do the words in your name invoke positive or negative associations". People largely only form opinions of you or your projects when they have some reason to do that, like trying to figure out whether to buy your product, or join your social movement, or vote for you in an election. You basically never care about what people think about you while engaging in activities completely unrelated to you, you care about what people will do when they have to take any action that is related to your goals. But the former is exactly what you are measuring in attitude surveys. As an example of this (used here for illustrative purposes, and what caused me to form strong opinions on this, but not intended as the central point of this post): Many leaders in the Effective Altruism community ran various surveys after the collapse of FTX trying to understand what the reputation of "Effective Altruism" is. The results were basically always the same: People mostly didn't know what EA was, and had vaguely positive associations with the term when asked. The people who had recently become familiar with it (which weren't that many) did lower their opinions of EA, but the vast majority of people did not (because they mostly didn't know what it was).  As far as I can tell, these surveys left most EA leaders thinking that the reputational effects of FTX were limited. After all, most people never heard about EA in the context of FTX, and seemed to mostly have positive associations with the term, and the average like
Guive20

This is good. Please consider making it a top level post. 

One of the first things they teach you in algebra is that the letters you use to signify variables are arbitrary, and you can use whatever you want[1]. Like most of the 'first things' students are taught, this is almost entirely a lie: every letter has implicit connotations, and if (for example) you use "n" for a non-integer variable, it'll confuse someone reading your work. More importantly, if you don't know what symbol choices imply, it'll be harder for you to understand what an equation is implicitly communicating, making it even more difficult to grasp the concepts that are actually being laid out.

So I've decided to go through the English alphabet and explicitly explain the connotations of each character as they might be used by a [unusually-bright-highschooler|reasonably-clever-college-student]-level...

2kave
I think it's quite common to use i as index variable (for example, in a sum) (edit: whoops, I see several people have mentioned this) 

You're right. I'll delete that aside.

2niplav
See also Latin, Greek and other letters used in math, science and engineering on Wikipedia.
1cqb
I would add that bold capital letters are often used in linear algebra to represent matrices.
This is a linkpost for https://arxiv.org/abs/2410.04332

We present gradient routing, a way of controlling where learning happens in neural networks. Gradient routing applies masks to limit the flow of gradients during backpropagation. By supplying different masks for different data points, the user can induce specialized subcomponents within a model. We think gradient routing has the potential to train safer AI systems, for example, by making them more transparent, or by enabling the removal or monitoring of sensitive capabilities.

In this post, we:

  • Show how to implement gradient routing.
  • Briefly state the main results from our paper, on...
    • Controlling the latent space learned by an MNIST autoencoder so that different subspaces specialize to different digits;
    • Localizing computation in language models: (a) inducing axis-aligned features and (b) demonstrating that information can be localized then removed by ablation, even when data
...

I think this approach can be combined with self-other overlap fine-tuning (SOO FT, see Self-Other Overlap: A Neglected Approach to AI AlignmentI'm part of the SOO team[1], now an ICLR submission). The difficult part of SOO is to precisely isolate the representation of self and other, and I think it should be possible to use ERA to get a tighter bound on it. 

  1. ^

    I'm part of the SOO team.