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[Link] sona ike lili

by AprilSR
1st Apr 2022
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Frontpage

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[Link] sona ike lili
16kave
3AprilSR
11abramdemski
2AprilSR
1David Joshua Sartor
3David Joshua Sartor
3kave
3AprilSR
2TLW
2Vaniver
5abramdemski
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2AprilSR
1David Joshua Sartor
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[-]kave3y160

FWIW, "powe" has been removed from "official" toki pona. A more standard translation might be "sona ike lili".

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[-]AprilSR3y30

The idea of Toki Pona is, to some degree, to force you to avoid using complicated concepts by making doing so unwieldy. But if I’m gonna talk about something anyways, using a slightly more expansive vocabulary to make it more elegant seems within the spirit of things - especially if it’s for a title of something.

Mostly I just like this better, even if it’s nonstandard.

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[-]abramdemski3y110

I take it on Sonja Lang's authority that Sonya Lang has no authority, so you can do what you want.

However, I personally think "sona ike lili" is more descriptive in the way that Toki Pona is good for.

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[-]AprilSR3y20

It seems like people mostly share your opinion, so I'll change it.

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[-]David Joshua Sartor8mo10

What was this called before?

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[-]David Joshua Sartor8mo30

powe lili?

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[-]kave8mo30

Yup

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[-]AprilSR3y30

Happy to take suggestions for other articles to translate - though preferably ones which are not particularly long. I’m not prepared to tackle The Simple Truth or anything like that.

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[-]TLW3y20

It is famous for only having about 120 or so words, and yet still being able to express a wide variety of concepts.

It's a RISC!

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[-]Vaniver3y20

Does it operate thru similar principles to Person Do Thing (a game wherein you have to get someone else to guess a randomly selected word by only using the 49 words on an approved list)?

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[-]abramdemski3y50

Unlike Person Do Thing, Toki Pona has a nontrivial grammar. (Also, it's not too close to English grammar, or any one natural language grammar afaik. And the words are based on a variety of natural languages rather than just taken from English.)

Otherwise, yes, trying to explain things in the two languages is a similar process.

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[-]kave3y30

It feels a lot like "Person Do Thing: the language". In fact, the 49 words are close to a subset of toki pona's. But toki pona is more expressive. Obviously there are a bunch more words, but also every word can be used as every part of speech, and the grammar disambiguates which part of speech it is. That makes it suprisingly usable. Still, toki pona sentences do feel like puzzles to me.

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[-]AprilSR3y20

I’m not too familiar with that game, but it sounds like they both revolve around identifying complicated concepts using only a small set of very basic ideas.

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[-]David Joshua Sartor6mo10

I'll repost my comment from Substack, with the better formatting from LessWrong.

Yay, Toki Pona and Rationalist Taboo. Thank you.
I don't know Toki Pona. I'm using Wiktionary and Google to understand the words, and mostly ignoring grammar.

I think it would make more sense to Toki Ponise all the proper nouns, and use links or footnotes to clarify the weird ones.
Taboo -> musi Tapu, and Hasbro -> kulupu Asopo?

Wiktionary says: "Using pi followed by one word is proscribed."

"ma ale en mun en kili telo li jo e selo sama."
I don't understand this sentence.

"tenpo suno" feels weird to me, like that should be the word for 'year' rather than 'day'. Google says it's the standard. I think 'period of the large fluctuation in sunlight' would translate very well ('jule' means 'vibrate'). It might not work out for the poles, though. Similar for "tenpo sike" later.
This was a really good choice of essay. Thank you.

"Awistote" 
Not proper, because of the "st". 'Awitote' works. 'Ewitato' sounds like how I've heard it. 'Awitoteli' might be more like how he pronounced it. 'Awitotili' can sound like it has 'totally', which is funny to say.

"Sokatesi"
This one works, but is also weird. I think 'Sakati' sounds like how I've heard it. 'Sokati' is closer to the Greek.

"jan Awistote li toke e ni:"
I can't find 'toke'. Did you mean 'toki'?

"Alebe"
Not proper, because of the "b". Maybe 'Alapa'?
I'd recommend making up new stock names rather than translating the old ones. Toki Pona's alphabet starts with a, then e. So maybe 'Ana' and 'Esa', from Frozen.
(I think this alphabet should be called 'ane'. 'Alphabet' comes from the first two Greek letters. Esperanto spells vowels with themselves, but 'ae' is illegal, so I add a no.)

"kasi kiwen suli"
I think 'palisa' makes more sense here than "kiwen". Just 'kasi suli' would also work well.

"jan Alebe: 'kasi kiwen suli li kama anpa. ni li pali e kalama. jan Pewi: 'kasi kiwen suli li kama anpa. ni li pali ala e kalama.'"
I don't think this works without context. You forgot to say that the tree is alone.

"jan Alebe: 'ni li pali e kon tawa.'"
This could describe either interpretation. You could use 'jule' here too.

"nasin sewi mute li sama lukin"
Why'd you use 'sama'? 'Ante' makes more sense to me.

I liked this post. Thank you.

Wow! Toki Pona is very easy to learn. Thank you.

Any feedback or responses for me?

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Toki Pona is a language constructed by Sonja Lang, as foretold by linguistic determinism. It is famous for only having about 120 or so words, and yet still being able to express a wide variety of concepts. Today, I am announcing sona ike lili (lit. little bad knowledge), a blog where I will translate famous LessWrong articles into toki pona. Currently, there are two articles: Scope Insensitivity and Taboo Your Words.