[POLL] AI-FOOM Debate in Sequence Reruns?

I remember seeing a few AI(and other things, sometimes) debates (mostly on YouTube) where they'd just be getting to the point where they are clarifying what it is that each one actually believes and you get: 'agree to disagree'. The end.

Just when the really interesting part seemed to be approaching! :(

For text-based discussions that fail to go anywhere, that brings to mind the 'talking past each other' you mention or 'appears to be deliberately misinterpreting the other person'

[-]Raemon13y210

I have no strong preference (I guess two a day, one of each, sounds good). But I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you for doing this, in general.

[-]fortyeridania13y60

But I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you for doing this, in general.

Seconded.

[-]MinibearRex13y10

Thanks. I appreciate that.

[-]Lapsed_Lurker13y70

Has there been any evolution in either of their positions since 2008, or is that the latest we have?

edit Credit to XiXiDu to sending me this OB link, which contains in the comments this YouTube video of a Hanson-Yudkowsky AI debate in 2011. Boiling it down to one sentence I'd say it amounts to Hanson thinking that a singleton Foom is a lot less likely than Yudkowsky thinks.

Is that more or less what it was in 2008?

[-]MinibearRex13y00

I think so, but truth be told I've actually never read through all of it myself. All of the bits of it I've seen seem to indicate that they hold similar positions in those debates to their positions in the original argument.

[-]Furcas13y60

I'd say no, don't re-post the debate at all. First, it teaches nothing about rationality. Second, it was... kind of bad.

[-]wedrifid13y40

First, it teaches nothing about rationality.

Yes it does. In fact memory suggests part of the problem with Eliezer's posts were that he was stuck explaining foundational concepts of how to reason rather than shooting out carefully crafted conclusions.

[-]Furcas13y110

Looking at the list of posts, you're right, there is some stuff about rationality, like Is that your true rejection? It just has very little to do with the AI-foom debate.

So I'll amend my previous post: Don't post any of the actual debate, but extract the posts from the sequence that are about rationality.

[-]MinibearRex13y00

What do people think of this idea? I'm personally interested in reading all of the debate, and I think I will, no matter what I wind up posting, so nobody else needs to feel lonely if they want to see all of it.

[-]chaosmosis13y10

Concur. Hanson didn't apply his knowledge of calculus, or felt it was unjustified to do so because he believes too strongly in empirical data and not strongly enough in analytical arguments. Yudkowsky repeated himself over and over and talked about side issues that weren't the cause of Hanson's rejection.

[-]NancyLebovitz13y20

I think "analytical argument" is the phrase I was looking for.

In Brunner's The Sheep Look Up (a pollution dystopia), someone figures out that there isn't enough clean land to produce the amount of clean food they're selling. At that point, you don't have to check the details of their production methods (assuming that hydroponics aren't feasible), though you still might want to.

Are there comparable terms for other sorts of arguments?

[-]RobertLumley13y50

I would say stick with one post per day and alternate between Hanson and Yudkowsky.

[-]Decius13y00

Concur

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18 [POLL] AI-FOOM Debate in Sequence Reruns?

by MinibearRex

1st Nov 2012