Quick Takes


Things are getting scary with the Trump regime. Rule of law is breaking down with regard to immigration enforcement and basic human rights are not being honored.

I'm kind of dumbfounded because this is worse than I expected things to get. Do any of you LessWrongers have a sense of whether these stories are exaggerated or if they can be taken at face value?

Deporting immigrants is nothing new, but I don't think previous administrations have committed these sorts of human rights violations and due process violations. 

 

Krome detention center in Miami ... (read more)

Showing 3 of 5 replies (Click to show all)

It seems the recent tariff designs already are serious policy. What do you mean by "added as a new centerpiece of the tax and spending regime"? What are the alternative futures?

7jbash
Things got scary November 5 at the very latest. And I haven't even been in the US for years. The deportations, both the indiscriminate ones and the vindictive ones, represent a very high level of lawlessness, one that hasn't been seen in a long time. Not only are they ignoring due process, they're actively thwarting it, and openly bragging about doing so. They're not even trying to pretend to be remotely decent. The case you mention isn't even close to the worst of them; that one could at least theoretically have happened before. The deportations were also a campaign promise. Actually the campaign promise was even more extreme. It's part of a systematic plan. There've been a lot of administrative and personnel changes obviously designed to weaken institutions that are supposed to prevent things like that. ICE has always had a reputation for a relatively thuggish, xenophobic organizational culture. It was already primed to get worse. As soon as Trump signalled aproval, it did get worse. Bad conditions in detention centers are nothing new. There's never been any willingness to spend what it would take to do them right, or to put in the kind of controls you'd need. It's politically risky to act like you care about "illegal immigrants", whereas it can be politically rewarding to "get tough". The 2020 "kids in cages" scandal was a rare case of something that got some traction. But, sure, I imagine that the newly emboldened ICE is even more indifferent to bad conditions, and may even be actively trying to make them worse. And of course if a center is already bad, putting more people into it and moving people through it fast is only going to make it worse.
10Maxwell Peterson
The Krome thing is all rumor - looking into it, you see numeric estimates like >According to its official figures, there are 605 people detained at Krome, although the capacity is 581. While ICE is looking for ways to increase its current detention capacity of 40,000 nationwide to 100,000, lawyers and activists estimate the real number is much higher. Some speak of double the capacity, others of up to 4,000.    “Activists and [activist] lawyers say number is huge” is not news, and shouldn’t dumbfound the reader. The water claim is also weird. I tried watching one of the instagram links, and it shared so much stylistically with mind-killing videos I remember from the BLM era that I had to turn it off.  Like, maybe some of this stuff is true. I don’t have evidence against. But when I was deeply involved with the protest scene in 2014-2015, I remember every arrest being an opportunity for claiming major mistreatment. Everything from the way police carried resisting arrestees, to when and if arrestees were made to change into jail uniforms, were spread frantically on social media as clear examples of mistreatment.  Once, when I was arrested, and we were being transported to the larger jail via van, the other arrestee (to be clear: not related to protests) being transported with me banged his head on the metal separating grate repeatedly, presumably with the idea of later accusing the police of beating him.  I’d always scoffed at police claims about detainees hurting themselves to get social ammunition, but I’ve ridden in a police van once in my life, and saw this. So now I think detainees often tell very tall tales. All this isn’t to say “this proves your links are false”. But rather to say this is a low standard of evidence. I think it would be really bad if people started just dumping rumors and accusations on LessWrong whenever those accusations pointed at politicians they already didn’t like. Social media posts by activists are mind-killing. Like, take

I occasionally get texts from journalists asking to interview me about things around the aspiring rationalist scene. A few notes on my thinking and protocols for this:

  • I generally think it is pro-social to share information with serious journalists on topics of clear public interest.
  • By-default I speak with them only if their work seems relatively high-integrity. I like journalists whose writing is (a) factually accurate, (b) boring, and (c) do not feel to me to have an undercurrent of hatred for their subjects.
  • By default I speak with them off-the-record, an
... (read more)
Showing 3 of 4 replies (Click to show all)
2Zach Stein-Perlman
Yep, my impression is that it violates the journalist code to negotiate with sources for better access if you write specific things about them.

Claude says its a gray area when I ask, since this isn’t asking for the journalist to make a general change to the story or present Ben or the subject in a particular light.

1kilgoar
This is amusing. When you ask to speak "off the record," it does not mean anything legally or otherwise. It is entirely up to their discretion what is and isn't shared, as they are the ones writing the story.

Lesswrong is clearly no longer the right forum for me to get engagement on topics of my interest. Seems mostly focussed on AI risk.

On which forums do people who grew up on the cypherpunks mailing list hang out today? Apart from cryptocurrency space.

i think neurosama is drastically underanalyzed compared to things like truthterminal. TT got $50k from andreeson as an experiment, neurosama peaked at 135,000 $5/month subscribers in exchange for... nothing? it's literally just a donation from her fans? what is this bizarre phenomenon? what incentive gradient made the first successful AI streamer present as a little girl, and does it imply we're all damned? why did a huge crowd of lewdtubers immediately leap at the opportunity to mother her? why is the richest AI agent based on 3-year-old llama2?

Potential token analysis tool idea:

Use the tokenizers of common LLMs to tokenize a corpus of web text (OpenWebText, for example), and identify the contexts in which they frequently appear, their correlation with other tokens, whether they are glitch tokens, ect. It could act as a concise resource for explaining weird tokenizer-related behavior to those less familiar with LLMs (e.g. why they tend to be bad at arithmetic) and how a token entered a tokenizer's vocabulary. 

Would this be useful and/or duplicate work? I already did this with GPT2 when I used it to analyze glitch tokens, so I could probably code the backend in a few days. 

I appeared on the 80,000 Hours podcast. I discussed a bunch of points on misalignment risk and AI control that I don't think I've heard discussed publicly before.

Transcript + links + summary here; it's also available as a podcast in many places.

What do you think are the most important points that weren't publicly discussed before?

Is it time to start training AI in governance and policy-making?

There are numerous allegations of politicians using AI systems - including to draft legislation, and to make decisions that affect millions of people. Hard to verify, but it seems likely that:

  1. AIs are already used like this occasionally
  2. This is going to become more common in the future
  3. Telling politicians "using AI for policy-making is a really bad idea" isn't going to stop it completely
  4. Training AI to hard-refuse queries like this may also fail to stop this completely

Training an AI to make more s... (read more)

What I've been using AI (mainly Gemini 2.5 Pro, free through AI Studio with much higher limits than the free consumer product) for:

  1. Writing articles in Chinese for my family members, explaining things like cognitive bias, evolutionary psychology, and why dialectical materialism is wrong. (My own Chinese writing ability is <4th grade.) My workflow is to have a chat about some topic with the AI in English, then have it write an article in Chinese based on the chat, then edit or have it edit as needed.
  2. Simple coding/scripting projects. (I don't code serio
... (read more)

I successfully use Claude web interface to:

  • generate simple Python code, mostly to work with files and images
  • ask for examples how to do something in certain Java libraries
  • translate a book from Russian to Slovak and English, including puns and poems

I tried to also use Claude to explain to me some parts of set theory, but it hallucinates so much that it is unusable for this purpose. Practically every mathematical argument contains an error somewhere in the middle. Asking the same question in two chats will give me "yes - here is the proof" in one, and "no - h... (read more)

2Mateusz Bagiński
Your needing to write them seems to suggest that there's not enough content like that in Chinese, in which case it would plausibly make sense to publish them somewhere? I'm also curious about how your family received these articles.
3winstonBosan
I mostly use Claude desktop client with MCPs (like additional plugins and tooling for Claude to use) for: * 2-iter Delphi method involving calling Gemini2.5pro+whatever is top at the llm arena of the day through open router. * Metaculus, Kalshi and Manifold search for quick intuition on subjects * Smart fetch (for ocr’ing pdf, images, etc) * Local memory 

I recently watched (the 1997 movie version of) Twelve Angry Men, and found it fascinating from a Bayesian / confusion-noticing perspective.

My (spoilery) notes (cw death, suspicion, violence etc):

  1. The existence of other knives of the same kind as the murder weapon is almost perfectly useless as evidence. The fact that the knife used was identical to the one the accused owned, and was used to kill so close to when the defendant's knife (supposedly) went missing, is still too much of a coincidence to ignore. The only way it would realistically be a different k
... (read more)
4abstractapplic
One last, even more speculative thought:

Mostly here because I was active a long time ago, but this is interesting enough to make an account again. If I use language that doesn't fit the lingo, that's why.

So you know if you want to bother reading-My conclusion is that I'm pretty sure you're wrong in ways that are fun and useful to discuss!

First off, it's absolutely relevant that the accused's knife isn't unique. If the knife it unique it selects for them specifically out of the suspect pool of everyone-it's not perfect evidence, it's possible that they lost it, but in most worlds where it's a uni... (read more)

LLMs (probably) have a drive to simulate a coherent entity

Maybe we can just prepend a bunch of examples of aligned behaviour before a prompt, presented as if the model had done this itself, and see if that improves its behaviour.

A recent essay called "Keep the Future Human" made a compelling case for avoiding building AGI in the near future and building tool AI instead.

The main point of the essay is that AGI is the intersection of three key capabilities:

  • High autonomy
  • High generality
  • High intelligence

It argues that these three capabilities are dangerous when combined together and pose unacceptable risks to the job market and culture of humanity and would replace rather than augment humans. Instead of building AGI, the essay recommends building powerful but controllable tool-lik... (read more)

The OECD working paper Miracle or Myth? Assessing the macroeconomic productivity gains from Artificial Intelligence, published quite recently (Nov 2024), is strange to skim-read: its authors estimate just 0.24-0.62 percentage points annual aggregate TFP growth (0.36-0.93 pp. for labour productivity) over a 10-year horizon, depending on scenario, using a "novel micro-to-macro framework" that combines "existing estimates of micro-level performance gains with evidence on the exposure of activities to AI and likely future adoption rates, relying on a multi-sec... (read more)

Metroid Prime would work well as a difficult video-game-based test for AI generality.

  • It has a mixture of puzzles, exploration, and action.
  • It takes place in a 3D environment.
  • It frequently involves backtracking across large portions of the map, so it requires planning ahead.
  • There are various pieces of text you come across during the game. Some of them are descriptions of enemies' weaknesses or clues on how to solve puzzles, but most of them are flavor text with no mechanical significance.
  • The player occasionally unlocks new abilities they have to learn how to
... (read more)

here is how to cast a spell. (quick writeup of a talk i gave at DunCon)

Short Version
1. have an intention for change.
2. take a symbolic action representing the change.

that's it. that's all you need. but also, if you want to do it more:

Long Version

Prep

1. get your guts/intuition/S1/unconscious in touch with your intention somehow, and work through any tangles you find.

2. choose a symbolic action representing (and ideally participating in) the change you want, and design your spell around that. to find the right action, try this thought experiment: one day you... (read more)

Showing 3 of 4 replies (Click to show all)

An aspect where I expect further work to pay off is stuff related to self-visualization, which is fairly powerful (e.g. visualizing yourself doing something for 10 hours will generally go a really long way to getting you there, and for the 10 hour thing it's more a question of what to do when something goes wrong enough to make the actul events sufficiently different from what you imagined, and how to do it in less than 10 hours).

15Garrett Baker
It seems reasonable to mention that I know of many who have started doing "spells" like this, with a rationalized "oh I'm just hypnotizing myself, I don't actually believe in magic" framing who then start to go off the deep-end and start actually believing in magic. That's not to say this happens in every case or even in most cases. Its also not to say that hypnotizing yourself can't be useful sometimes. But it is to say that if you find this tempting to do because you really like the idea of magic existing in real life, I suggest you re-read some parts of the sequences.
4Garrett Baker
(you also may want to look into other ways of improving your conscientiousness if you're struggling with that. Things like todo systems, or daily planners, or simply regularly trying hard things)

every 4 years, the US has the opportunity to completely pivot its entire policy stance on a dime. this is more politically costly to do if you're a long-lasting autocratic leader, because it is embarrassing to contradict your previous policies. I wonder how much of a competitive advantage this is.

Showing 3 of 6 replies (Click to show all)
2Ben
Having unstable policy making comes with a lot of disadvantages as well as advantages. For example, imagine a small poor country somewhere with much of the population living in poverty. Oil is discovered, and a giant multinational approaches the government to seek permission to get the oil. The government offers some kind of deal - tax rates, etc. - but the company still isn't sure. What if the country's other political party gets in at the next election? If that happened the oil company might have just sunk a lot of money into refinery's and roads and drills only to see them all taken away by the new government as part of its mission to "make the multinationals pay their share for our people." Who knows how much they might take? What can the multinational company do to protect itself? One answer is to try and find a different country where the opposition parties don't seem likely to do that.  However, its even better to find a dictatorship to work with. If people think a government might turn on a dime, then they won't enter into certain types of deal with it. Not just companies, but also other countries. So, whenever a government does turn on a dime, it is gaining some amount of reputation for unpredictability/instability, which isn't a good reputation to have when trying to make agreements in the future.
2Garrett Baker
The closing off of China after/during Tinamen square I don't think happened after a transition of power, though I could be mis-remembering. See also the one-child policy, which I also don't think happened during a power transition (allowed for 2 children in 2015, then removed all limits in 2021, while Xi came to power in 2012). I agree the zero-covid policy change ended up being slow. I don't know why it was slow though, I know a popular narrative is that the regime didn't want to lose face, but one fact about China is the reason why many decisions are made is highly obscured. It seems entirely possible to me there were groups (possibly consisting of Xi himself) who believed zero-covid was smart. I don't know much about this though. I will also say this is one example of china being abnormally slow of many examples of them being abnormally fast, and I think the abnormally fast examples win out overall. Ish? The reason he pursued the cultural revolution was because people were starting to question his power, after the great leap forward, but yeah he could be an outlier. I do think that many autocracies are governed by charismatic & powerful leaders though, so not that much an outlier.

I mean, the proximate cause of the 1989 protests was the death of the quite reformist general secretary Hu Yaobang. The new general secretary, Zhao Ziyang, was very sympathetic towards the protesters and wanted to negotiate with them, but then he lost a power struggle against Li Peng and Deng Xiaoping (who was in semi retirement but still held onto control of the military). Immediately afterwards, he was removed as general secretary and martial law was declared, leading to the massacre.

Thread on The Abolition of Man by C. S. Lewis

11LoganStrohl
Notes on Part One: Men Without Chests: * What is the relationship between believing that some things merit liking while others merit hatred, and the power to act? * Is there a way to preserve the benefits of a map/territory distinction mentality while gaining the benefits of map/territory conflation when it comes to taste/value/quality? * What exactly *are* the benefits of map/territory conflation? * Are terrible contortions necessary to believe in objective value wholeheartedly? * What are we protecting when we dismiss objective value? What does it seem to threaten? * "It is the doctrine of objective value, the belief that certain attitudes are really true, and others really false, to the kind of thing the universe is and the kind of things we are." What exactly is the word "to" doing in that sentence? * Everybody knows that value is objective, and also that it isn't. What are we confused about, and why? * What role does religion play in a community's relationship to value? * If everyone who ever lived thought a certain combination of musical notes was ugly, but in fact everyone were wrong, how could you know? * The Lesswrong comment guidelines say, "Aim to explain, not persuade." Is this a method by which we cut out our own chests?

Did you ever get back to reading this? I think I got some very different things out of it when I read through! (And @whatstruekittycat will talk your ear off about it, among other topics.)

2Raemon
I‘m curious how this question parses for Vaniver

have any countries ever tried to do inflation instead of income taxes? seems like it'd be simpler than all the bureaucracy required for individuals to file tax returns every year

Yes, in dire straits. But it's usually called 'hyperinflation' when you try to make seignorage equivalent to >10% of GDP and fund the government through deliberately creating high inflation (which is on top of any regular inflation, of course). And because inflation is about expectations in considerable part, you can't stop it either. Not to mention what happens when you start hyperinflation.

(FWIW, this is a perfectly reasonable question to ask a LLM first. eg Gemini-2.5-pro will give you a thorough and sensible answer as to why this would be extraordin... (read more)

4 months ago I shared that I was taking sublingual vitamins and would test their effect on my nutrition in 2025. This ended up being an unusually good time to test because my stomach was struggling and my doctor took me off almost all vitamins, so the sublinguals were my major non-food source (and I've been good at extracting vitamins from food). I now have the "after" test results. I will announce results in 8 days- but before then, you can bet on Manifold.  Will I judge my nutrition results to have been noticeably improved over the previous results?... (read more)

Rough intuition for LLM personas.

An LLM is trained to be able emulate the words of any author. And to do so efficiently, they do it via generalization and modularity. So at a certain point, the information flows through a conceptual author, the sort of person who would write the things being said.

These author-concepts are themselves built from generalized patterns and modular parts. Certain things are particularly useful: emotional patterns, intentions, worldviews, styles, and of course, personalities. Importantly, the pieces it has learned are able to ad... (read more)

3artifex0
  I don't think that would help much, unfortunately.  Any accurate model of the world will also model malicious agents, even if the modeller only ever learns about them second-hand. So the concepts would still be there for the agent to use if it was motivated to do so. Censoring anything written by malicious people would probably make it harder to learn about some specific techniques of manipulation that aren't discussed much by non-malicious people or which appear much in fiction- but I doubt that would be much more than a brief speed bump for a real misaligned ASI, and probably at the expense of reducing useful capabilities in earlier models like the ability to identify maliciousness, which would give an advantage to competitors.

I think learning about them second-hand makes a big difference in the "internal politics" of the LLM's output. (Though I don't have any ~evidence to back that up.)

Basically, I imagine that the training starts building up all the little pieces of models which get put together to form bigger models and eventually author-concepts. And as text written without malicious intent is weighted more heavily in the training data, the more likely it is to build its early model around that. Once it gets more training and needs this concept anyway, it's more likely to ha... (read more)

I believe we are doomed from superintelligence but I'm not sad.

There are simply too many reasons why alignment will fail. We can assign a probability p(S_n aligned | S_{n-1} aligned) where S_n is the next level of superintelligence. This probability is less than 1. 

As long as misalignment keeps increasing and superintelligence iterates on itself exponentially fast, we are bound to get misaligned superintelligence. Misalignment can decrease due to generalizability, but we have no way of knowing if that's the case and is optimistic to think so.

The misal... (read more)

Load More