I’m not suggesting this is the same idea as epistemic hell, but it rhymes.
The philosopher Eric Schwitzgebel is a proponent of what he calls “philosophical crazyism”, which applies to some outstanding philosophical problems, like the hard problem of consciousness, the interpretation of quantum mechanics, and free will. His notion is that the solutions to these problems must be crazy, that is, they must have some feature wildly contrary to intuition. For each such problem, he comes up with a set of intuitively obvious properties that any solution must have, and shows that they cannot all be true. By elimination, one of the properties is wrong, and something crazy must be true.
It‘s refreshing because it relieves us of the responsibility to always be plausible.
This is apparently the topic of his new book, “The Weirdness of the World”. I haven’t read the book, but I have read his blog for many years, and watched the theory develop.
Imagine if some of the weirdness that besets us is due to a very subtle but fundamental structural incoherence. It's not simply that we're not making sense, but that when it comes to certain metaphysical matters we can't. Either because that's how our brains work, or because that's just how the universe is, or both.
The problem was so common that shipowners and governments assumed a 50% death rate from scurvy for their sailors on any major voyage.
Sticking my neck out: roll to disbelieve that 50% of sailors on major voyages died in general, let alone specifically of scurvy.
Ways to change the claim that I'd find much more believable:
I tracked the claim back to Wikipedia and from there to this article.
Scurvy killed more than two million sailors between the time of Columbus’s transatlantic voyage and the rise of steam engines in the mid-19th century. The problem was so common that shipowners and governments assumed a 50% death rate from scurvy for their sailors on any major voyage.
Searching more broadly turned up this, which at least has a few claims we can check easily.
It has been estimated the disease killed more than 2 million sailors between the 16th and 18th centuries. On a lengthy voyage, the loss of half the crew was common, although in extreme cases it could be much worse. Vasco da Gama lost 116 of 170 men on his first voyage to India in 1499, almost all to scurvy. In 1744, Commodore George Anson returned from a four-year circumnavigation with only 188 of the 1,854 men he had departed with, most losses because of scurvy. Midshipman (and future admiral) Augustus Keppel was one of the lucky survivors—at the cost of all his hair and teeth.
1) Vasco's mission lost 116/170 people. 1) Wikipedia says his mission began on 08/29/1498 and ended on 01/07/1499 (so about 3 months). Half died, many of the rest had scurvy. 2) This site says only 54 of Vasco's crew "returned with him"; presumably the discrepancy in deaths here is because this site is counting the deaths incurred on both leaving and coming back, while Wikipedia only counted the deaths going out. The site doesn't break down the cause of death but says that the "majority" died of illness. 3) This site says that "several" crew members died of scurvy by early 1499, but also says that only 54 made it in the end. That seems a little weird; you'd expect that most of the deaths would have happened before the last six days of the trip (if we're maximally generous and say that "early 1499" means "01/01/1499") 4) This site says Vasco started with 130 people and came back with 59, but doesn't provide any statistics as to cause of death.
It seems like everyone agrees that the six-month journey (3 months there, 3 back) was very deadly, and that most of the lethality was due to disease, with scurvy playing a big part in it. But it's unclear what percent of deaths were due to scurvy and what were due to other nutrient deficiency diseases.
2) Anson lost 1666/1854 (!) people.
Notably, only 188 people completed the trip; but ~500 survived. So while the Anson statistic is technically true, it's pretty misleading right off the bat. Moreover, it seems clear from reading the article that the deaths had a wide range of causes, not just scurvy — the article in particular emphasizes niacin and vitamin A deficiency. Now, I'm sure there was a lot of overlap, but equally, it seems clear that fixing scurvy isn't going to solve the actual problem of "our sailors keep dying". I think the 50% statistic, even if maybe technically true, is misleading because it implies that scurvy was the biggest killer when niacin and vitamin A deficiencies seem like they were equally big problems.
Nice!
Wikipedia says his mission began on 08/29/1498 and ended on 01/07/1499 (so about 3 months).
It looks like this is just one leg of the return journey. In total the outward journey was about 10 months and the return was about 11, and both spent 3+ months without landing.
But at some point between 1799 and 1870, someone switched out lemons for limes, which contain a lot less vitamin C.
I recall reading, but can't find a source now, that this happen due to early confusion about citrus fruit among the British, who called all varieties of lemons and limes "limes" and thus made this mistake repeatedly not only by mixing up lemons and limes, but also mixing up lime varieties with more and less vitamin C because they didn't have words to specify the difference. It was only in the 20th Century that the problem got sorted out when British grocers started to regularly stock multiple lime varieties thanks to improvements in shipping.
(Very happy to be corrected or provided a source. This feels like the kind of thing that could be true, but also could be apocryphal and made up by an author, retold by others, and now there's a bunch of sources that just claim it's true.)
SMTM has a follow-up post that goes into how confusing citrus classifications are.
In particular:
"It might seem like the diseases listed in the quote (I would add Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, Bipolar disorder and Schizophrenia) are unlikely nominees, but that’s always what it feels like when you are trapped in Hades."
Regarding the apparent lack of progress in Alzheimer's specifically, I'm aware of an interesting explanation. To paraphrase, there have been enough trials done on various experimental treatments that the lack of sufficiently positive results is statistically unusual (prior to 2023 it had been decades since a new drug was approved for treating Alzheimer's), despite hundreds of trials. With a target P of 0.05 there should have been on average one 'successful study' per 20 due to type-1 error, which caused certain researchers to suspect something about the underlying methodology and/or evaluation process was masking both type 1 error and the potential for actual success.
To attempt a summary: the approval requirements set by the FDA were requiring success on two axis of measurement rather than just one, which was raising the needed effect of any treatment by a significant degree. (Follow the link for the actual explanation by the statistician who presented on it. It is likely I have explained it poorly.)
Context: I am an undergrad software developer working for a pharmaceutical statistics-related firm, not a statistician. Regarding advanced statistics I can only repeat what I've had explained to me. I'll leave to those with better understanding of the fields involved whether this example is a good parallel to the principal of Epistemic Hell as described in the post.
“they serendipitously chose guinea pigs, the one animal besides human beings and monkeys that requires vitamin C in its diet.“
This recent post I think describes this same phenomena but not from the same level of ‘necessity’ as, say, cures to big problems. Kinda funny too: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/oA23zoEjPnzqfHiCt/there-is-way-too-much-serendipity.
My viruschecker thinks Life on the Grid: Terra Incognita is dangerous, and says I shouldn't go there...
Huh, you might want to get your virus-checker checked - it's just a link to a substack page
https://www.secretorum.life/p/life-on-the-grid-part-2
Today when I allowed the site in the viruschecker, Firefox said:
>Secure Connection Failed
>An error occurred during a connection to www.secretorum.life. Peer received a valid certificate, but access was denied.
>Error code: SSL_ERROR_ACCESS_DENIED_ALERT
>The page you are trying to view cannot be shown because the authenticity of the received data could not be verified.
>Please contact the website owners to inform them of this problem.
and I could only choose Retry, which didn't work.
After telling the viruschecker to allow www.secretorum.life too, I got the same message, but this time Firefox allowed me to go there anyway, and of course there doesn't look to be any problem. Maybe there is a wrong setting somewhere...
I.
From Scott Alexander’s review of Joe Henrich’s The Secret of our Success:
Scott continues:
II.
In their essay “Reality is Very Weird and You Need to be Prepared for That”, SlimeMoldTimeMold discuss an example of a particular epistemic hell that we managed to escape from through sheer dumb luck. SMTM review Maciej Cegłowski’s essay Scott And Scurvy which tells the incredible true history of how we came to understand the titular disease. They (SMTM is two people) say that it is one of the most interesting things they’ve ever read and that they can’t do full justice to all the twists and turns of the story; I will try to briefly summarize their telling of the story so you should expect even less justice to be done to it, but here it goes anyways.
First, how terrible was scurvy?
Hellish indeed, but the epistemic horror of this story comes from the fact that a simple cure for a terrible disease—literally eat anything with vitamin C which is like most food except muscle meat, bread, eggs, and cheese—was repeatedly lost.
The Wikipedia page does a good job of summarizing the history of cures; many people in the 1500s and 1600s knew that citrus fruits did the trick. The story you may have learned about in school was that of Scottish physician James Lind who supposedly found the cure for scurvy when he ran one of the first controlled experiments in medical history. The problem is that while yes Lind did do an experiment which provided evidence that lemons could cure scurvy, he didn’t even recognize the significance of his own findings. Just in case you weren’t sure whether or not we should credit Lind with discovering the cure, there is an article in the Lancet titled, “Treatment for scurvy not discovered by Lind”.
So it wasn’t Lind that popularized the citrus cure, but eventually the British Royal Navy did figure it out, basically just by accidentally noticing that sailors didn’t get scurvy when they ate lemons on long voyages. SlimeMoldTimeMold describe the comedy of errors that then led to the Royal Navy discrediting the citrus cure.
The road to rediscovering the citrus cure began with a stroke of dumb luck:
This dramatically undersells how hellish the whole situation was.
SlimeMoldTimeMold describe how devilishly bewildering the whole situation would have been if the guinea pigs had in fact gotten lost in the mail by imagining a hypothetical dialogue between the two researchers.
III.
One more example of an epistemic hell—from Gwern’s (fantastic) essay
“The Origins of Innovation: Bakewell & Breeding”:
“It took humanity a remarkably long time to discover that there are consistent relations between parent and offspring, and to develop ways of studying those relations. The raw phenomena of heredity were sufficiently complex to be impervious to ‘common-sense’ reasoning, to the brilliant but stifling schemas that were developed by the Greek philosophers, and even to the stunning forays of the early scientists.“
(“Heredity before Genetics: a History”; Cobb, 2006)
So how did we escape?
IV.
So what exactly is an epistemic hell?
Clearly these three examples are very different from one another, but they all describe a situation in which the dictates of logic and “proper” scientific investigation reliably lead us further from the truth. On some level, an epistemic hell is simply a case of bad luck—the world happened to be set up in a way where appearances, common sense, and obvious experiments/interventions are misleading in regards to some phenomenon. If we were just utterly lost and had no idea where to begin that would be one thing, but the problem is that it doesn’t feel that way while you’re in the midst of the inferno—it feels like there are numerous promising hypotheses on offer or that the phenomena in question is simply not amenable to any straightforward theory or remedy. There may even be optimism that now, finally, we are on the right track, and a breakthrough is right around the corner if we just keep plugging away.
What current scientific unknowns may be devilishly difficult in ways we don’t comprehend?
Complex diseases/disorders on which little progress has been made seem like good candidates; from the aforementioned “Scott and Scurvy” essay:
It might seem like the diseases listed in the quote (I would add Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, Bipolar disorder and Schizophrenia) are unlikely nominees, but that’s always what it feels like when you are trapped in Hades.
What about physics and cosmology? When you see a spate of articles with titles like “Why the foundations of physics have not progressed for 40 years”, “Escaping cosmology’s failing paradigm”, and “Physics is stuck — and needs another Einstein to revolutionize it, physicist Avi Loeb says”, that’s a good sign you might be in fiery knowledge abyss.
And then there is the so-called Hard Problem of Consciousness, a prime candidate if there ever was one. Maybe the problem is just difficult in an ordinary manner, but as we continue research decade after decade without any real breakthroughs it becomes increasingly likely that we are deeply confused about something fundamental (e.g. the scientific hellfires of Matter and Mind are one in the same).
Are there are general strategies or methods that we can use to at least increase the odds of extricating ourselves from epistemic netherworlds?
Being stuck in a hell means that all of the short moves through idea-space are misleading, so what you need is something radical, a quantum leap to an entirely new region of thought. In the case of scurvy, it was dumb luck (the testing of guinea pigs) that got us out of the hole; this suggests that engineering serendipity by increasing the randomness of the scientific process may be helpful (see my essay “Randomness in Science” for further discussion).
In regards to heredity, I would point to two things. First, the assembly of “extraordinary datasets” (multi-generation pedigrees, large-scale breeding experiments). In the case of physics (e.g. the LHC) and medicine, there is already substantial precedent for this path out of the inferno.
However, what was extraordinary about Mendel wasn’t only his dataset, but the simplicity of his approach—he disregarded all prior thinking, much of which seemed quite reasonable, and started from first principles, reasoning only from self-collected data (there was also dumb luck—pea plants and the simple traits he studied happened to be unusually good for the observation of hereditary patterns). It makes sense that this would be helpful; part of being epistemically damned means that you don’t know what you think you know, so a kind of “unlearning” is needed (I discuss this at length in Life on the Grid: Terra Incognita, which is basically a manifesto for how to make quantum leaps through idea-space)
In the next 2 posts of this series (if you want to call it that), I’ll explore another approach for escaping epistemic hells which could be summarized as:
If you are going through hell, keep going.