This story makes sense for describing how people might believe conspiracy theories because they oppose lockdowns, but I don't think a similar story would apply for opposition to vaccines. Following this line of thinking, I think the sequence of events is:
Similarly what I have seen from by my friends and acquaintances is.
Excellent post, but there is one aspect you are missing:
"People die every day of a thousand different things. It is good to save lives, but there is such a thing as a price which is too high. And this price is too high, at least under the terms that you're offering" you say.
A journalist appears beside the bureaucrat. "You want people to die," he sneers. "What a horrible person you are."
"No, I'm just saying that government actions should pass a cost-benefit analysis. It's a basic principle of good governance."
The bureaucrat sighs. "I see we need to do more to combat the spread of misinformation."
"Anti-vaxxer!" shouts the journalist. "Far-right crazy!"
"Far right?!" you exclaim. You're getting annoyed now. "I'm a registered independent. I'm a climate change activist. And it's incredibly unfair for the older generation to stick the younger one with another gigantic bill on top of the costs of decarbonisation. Don't you think we should at least debate that?"
The bureaucrat shakes his head sadly. "There's no getting through to some people. They're just immune to facts."
"Neo-nazi!" shrieks the journalist, his face going purple. "Science denier!" He picks up handfuls of mud and flings...
An important aspect of this is that it involves a tradeoff between a sacred value (preventing death) and a secular value (avoiding restrictions). When it's not socially acceptable to have a frank discussion of the real costs and benefits of various restrictions, it becomes easier for people who oppose the restrictions to pretend that the benefits of the restrictions don't exist (aka the disease isn't real or isn't serious).
I think he means that your argument:
When it's not socially acceptable to have a frank discussion of the real costs and benefits of various restrictions, it becomes easier for people who oppose the restrictions to pretend that the benefits of the restrictions don't exist (aka the disease isn't real or isn't serious).
also applies this way:
When it's not socially acceptable to have a frank discussion of the real costs and benefits of various restrictions, it becomes easier for people who support the restrictions to pretend that the costs of the restrictions don't exist (aka that restrictions to freedom aren't real or serious).
I think both are great points that complete each other.
You claim lockdowns are almost certainly net negative but plenty of research papers on the cost-benefit analysis of lockdowns come to the opposite conclusion. Lockdowns saved plenty of lives, prevented long Covid and stopped hospitals from being overwhelmed at the costs of ~5% of GDP and decreased mental health. I could see that for certain segments of the population such as young people that lockdowns are a net negative, though a large decision like lockdowns should likely be decided based off the benefits to all of society and for older people lockdowns were definitely a huge net positive.
Cost-benefit analyses of lockdowns are hard because on one side you have a bunch of reasonably well-defined positives: preventing deaths, and on the other you have a long tail of weird second-order long-term effects like children learning loss, calcification of social relationships because of masks, politicians getting used to exerting this sort of power over the daily lives of normal people, small business closures and all the second-order effects from that, increased videogame addiction, the dramatic increase of Tinder usage instead of face-to-face flirting, increased depression and suicides, that one study that showed babies born during the pandemic had lost 2 standard deviations of cognitive development compared to babies born earlier (babies are likely more resilient than we think and this loss will be temporary, but still). We've had pandemics and old people dying before, so the overall impacts can be better estimated than the impacts of the lockdowns and measures we've taken in the past 2 years, I think people have drastically underestimated the very long-term and far-reaching effects of these restrictions.
that one study that showed babies born during the pandemic had lost 2 standard deviations of cognitive development compared to babies born earlier
Whoa, that effect size is huge. Too big for me to believe it without more evidence. Seems more likely to be a confounding factor. The discussion section of that paper is pretty good, listing a bunch of hypothesis of what the reason could be, but not finding any obviously good ones.
One thing that stands out to me:
One aspect also not investigated here is the impact of mask-wearing by the study staff during child
visits and assessments [53]. The inability of infants to see full facial expressions may have eliminated
non-verbal cues, muffled instructions, or otherwise altered the understanding of the test questions and instructions.
This seems like it could be a big confounder. (Though it only makes sense if it has a differentially larger effect on younger children, since the cognitive loss supposedly applies to babies born during the pandemic rather than babies tested during the pandemic.)
Yeah, it's overconfident to claim that lockdowns are "almost certainly net negative". This stuff is complicated.
But it's also not certain that lockdowns were "definitely a huge net positive" for older people. For example, for my 90 year old grandmother the life-saving benefits are much larger than for younger people. But the costs of a couple years in lockdown has also been huge for her. She's been persistently depressed, and her health has deteriorated a lot. Presumably from not moving around much any more. She's felt really bad about life since the pandemic started.
Especially given that her statistical risk of dying per year is something like 50% pre-covid, it's not obvious whether this is a good trade-off. It all comes down to details about just how big the mental health costs are and the specific number for mortality reduction from covid.
Yeah, I wanted to make much the same point. My grandma died in 2015, but I've talked about it with my family members and we're all pretty certain she would have chosen to die of COVID rather than go into lockdown. In the last years of her life (especially after being widowed in 2008), she was very realistic about the fact that she didn't have much longer to live, and her whole life revolved around her community — she lived alone, but she was an important community fixture in her small town, and had been for decades. Not socializing would have removed her only source of meaning, and there's no way she would have thought that it was worth locking down to buy herself two additional years of life in isolation.
Many cost-benefit analyses (especially early in the pandemic) compared modelled, not actual, benefits of lockdowns - note that epidemiological models have repeatedly proven overly pessimistic - usually with estimated short-term monetary costs of lockdowns. Generally these cost-benefit analyses ignored non-monetary costs, even though they're huge. They also tended to calculate benefits by comparing lockdowns vs doing nothing, ignoring options like supporting the elderly to isolate themselves while letting everyone else go about their lives.
We now know that lockdowns had minimal-to-zero benefits in terms of preventing short-term excess deaths: https://www.nber.org/papers/w28930#fromrss (If you don't have patience to read the paper, just consider Sweden's average-for-Europe performance despite its decision not to lockdown, or the minimal difference between the outcomes of US red states and blue states.)
So given that the actual factually-demonstrated benefits are statistically indistinguishable from zero (so realistically some small positive), and the costs are immense, I find it hard to claim that a reasonable cost-benefit analysis would support lockdowns.
Do yo...
Dumbledore's Army was speaking about excess deaths. The article to which you link is about COVID mortality.
In addition, it says "Either way, the per capita death toll in blue America and red America was similar by the final weeks of 2020." That suggests that the lockdowns didn't cause a difference in COVID-19 mortality but the vaccines actually did. Sweden is also an example of no lockdown but decent vaccine uptake.
In one thread someone wrote about one rationalist dying to sepsis because they locked down to the extent that they didn't go to the hospital. I have one friend who said that three acquaintances of hers committed suicide during the lockdowns.
Looking at excess deaths makes a lot more sense because the additional deaths caused by the lockdown matter.
And based on the differential experience people made based on their decisions the lesson they derive from the pandemic will be diametrically opposite:
I’m already looking forward to the 2 pandemic movies playing forever
- Thank goodness I masked, vaxed & boosted. Barely made it out alive.
- Knew it, the government was lying all along. No vaccine and I’m healthy as a dewormed horse.
I think this grossly underestimates the second tier connectivity. In the hypothetical society, this person has 9900 indirect associates (such as the great uncle of a friend). If a random 0.2% of the population were to die from a disease, then there would not be just one indirect associate that dies, there would be around 20 of them.
In a small isolated community many of these would overlap, maybe even just in one person in extreme cases, but then it still wouldn't be just one "friends' great uncle" who died, it would also be "my boss's friend" and "my co-wo...
One important thing to mention, that I feel you may have glossed over, is that contrary to (some) misconception, Covid-19 restrictions were broadly popular. That is, it is inaccurate to view pandemic restrictions as merely a battle between the elite power hungry politicians and bureaucrats, and everyday citizens.
Politicians are indeed power hungry. And the non-compliance among everyday citizens is indeed quite high. But broadly speaking, we (as in, the general population) did this to ourselves. Or at least, the politicians are clearly acting on behal...
I think the perspective is very valuable. Nonetheless, some thoughts. Maybe my non-American perspective influences my views here.
Somehow you managed to transcribe my experience almost exactly.
I probably got Covid in March 2020, despite being more careful about it than most people around me. It was almost inevitable due to the place I lived. My symptoms were even milder than the ones you describe, I didn't lose the sense of smell or taste. When I called the doctors, I was told to stay home unless (or until) I was in need for hospitalization.
Now we're 2 years in. Nobody in my Dunbar-sized group died or needed hospitalization due to Covid. The overwhelming majority of the impact of the...
Masks are not very effective, but they are cheap and easy, so they're probably worth it. It is probably sufficient to recommend them without mandating them.
Sadly, it doesn't work like this. You can say "yes" to the masks, but then your boss says "no"... and you either remove the mask or lose your job. And the bosses will say "no" for all kinds of reasons; maybe they are antivaxers, or maybe some Karen complained about feeling uncomfortable not seeing your face.
This seems like a fully general argument against optional things.
Do you have estimates of the rate at which that happens (and subsequent harms), vs people who don't want to wear masks being forced to do so (and subsequent harms)?
It is a general argument against workplace safety being optional. And we already have many regulations against traditional dangers in various jobs. The difference is that covid is new.
Do you have estimates of the rate at which that happens (and subsequent harms), vs people who don't want to wear masks being forced to do so (and subsequent harms)?
I can't provide high-quality estimates, only anecdotal evidence. Calculating harm would also be difficult, because a lot of it is indirect. For example, for me the greatest worry about getting covid was not that I would die of it, but that I would unknowingly infect my old relatives with whom I am in frequent contact.
Intuitively, "killing my mother" feels more important than "the mask is annoying". But this is speaking from the position of work-from-home privilege. If I instead had to wear a mask 8 hours a day, every day, I would probably either find some rationalization, or reduce the contact with my mother to phone calls and leaving the groceries in front of her house.
And can you honestly claim that any of the FDA, the CDC, the WHO, or your state government actually deserve our deference and respect at this point?
I can honestly claim South Korean CDC showed itself to be worthy of respect in every way. South Korean government less so, but on the net, its work was positive.
It seems that about half of everyone you knew got the supercold; the rest avoided it by good luck or had such mild cases that they didn't notice. One person had a fever for ten days and almost had to go to the hospital, but they did eventually recover.
Nobody that you know died, though you did hear about a friend's elderly great-uncle who caught the cold and died of complications.
In the contrafactual world where the pandemic just spreads in full force (without vaccines and without special measures to avoid contagion), I claim that your experience will be fa...
Can anyone help me make sense of this paper?
Really, though, shouldn't we be able to do something to protect the elderly or other vulnerable people without causing everyone else six months of financial hardship and lost relationships?"
"Six months..." the man squirms. "I might need you to do this for a year or two."
Not exactly a fair description of what the public health measures have been. What country has been in lockdown for "a year or two" (besides China)?
> The harms caused by COVID suppression were larger than the harms of COVID itself for most people.
Possibly, but I doubt the same can be said...
There are a number of flavours of covid scepticism, and some of them are definitely unscientific. For instance the claim that covid has never been isolated.
You live in a roughly Dunbar-sized group. This does not mean that you live in a small village, but it does mean that your actual personal contacts, the number of people that you have direct social contact with, is about one hundred. One day, a respiratory illness starts to circulate among your social group. At first it seems just like a bad cold; later it becomes clear that it's a really bad cold.
You catch it, and you spend four days in bed with fever, muscle aches, chills, and nausea. Your sense of taste and smell go away. Once the fever breaks and you get out of bed, you deal with another week of sinus headaches and persistent dry cough. This is way longer than a typical cold, but it does eventually abate, and you get back to your normal life. [1]
In the aftermath, you take stock with your friends and acquaintances. It seems that about half of everyone you knew got the supercold; the rest avoided it by good luck or had such mild cases that they didn't notice. One person had a fever for ten days and almost had to go to the hospital, but they did eventually recover.
Nobody that you know died, though you did hear about a friend's elderly great-uncle who caught the cold and died of complications.
One day shortly after this, a mysterious man in a gray suit approaches you.
"I see that you and your friends have survived the passing of the great and terrible novel respiratory virus," he says.
"Uh, yes," you said, wondering why he refers to it in such an obtuse manner. "Who are you?"
"I am a concerned bureaucrat," the man says. "It also so happens that I am in possession of a time-travel device."
"Whoah, what? How does that work?"
"Never mind that. The point is: I can make it so that your friends do not suffer from the supercold."
"Okay. What's the catch?" You are genre-savvy and know that there is always a catch.
"Well, you'll have to close down many of your businesses for several months."
"Okay... so how will my friends who are waiters or small business owners avoid bankruptcy??"
The man shrugs. "We'll send them a check for a few thousand dollars."
"That's not nearly---"
The man cuts you off. "Also you'll have to give up in-person socializing for the same period. Especially you have to stop big social events like church and synagogue meetings, holiday parties, and weddings."
"But my sister is getting married---"
"And you will be required to wear uncomfortable masks whenever you leave the house for the same time period."
You are starting to have doubts. "But if we do this you promise it'll stop the disease?"
The man shrugs. "Well... maybe. For a little while."
"That's not very comforting. I'm really not sure that this is a good deal. Listen, the disease was about a week of discomfort for most people, nobody died, and if you hadn't showed up to make this pitch to me, I would have been well on my way to forgetting the whole thing. Is this really worth it?"
The bureaucrat begins to get upset. "How can you say nobody died?"
"I don't know a single one. My case was among the worst ones out of my friends, and it was unpleasant but not life-altering."
"What about your friend's great-uncle?"
"He was already quite old. And while his family surely grieves, it's still a fact of life that old people die a lot."
"And so you're going to throw him to the wolves in order to save your friends livelihoods!"
"Honestly... maybe. Really, though, shouldn't we be able to do something to protect the elderly or other vulnerable people without causing everyone else six months of financial hardship and lost relationships?"
"Six months..." the man squirms. "I might need you to do this for a year or two."
"And you said that I still might eventually catch the cold anyway."
"Aren't you listening to me? People died of this disease."
"People die every day of a thousand different things. It is good to save lives, but there is such a thing as a price which is too high. And this price is too high, at least under the terms that you're offering."
"Bah," the time-traveling bureaucrat says. He scowls at you. "I don't need your permission anyway." He pulls the time-travel device out of his pocket and pushes the button, leaving behind only the slightest whiff of brimstone.
There is distinction between COVID "skeptics" and COVID... it's not clear that there is a term for a COVID non-skeptic, but you know what I mean. (This lexical lacuna itself is something interesting, but I don't have time to go into that here.) It is typically proposed that the reason for COVID skepticism is some version of anti-scientific bias, exacerbated by partisanship. In other words, the problem with COVID skeptics is assumed to be one of epistemics: they refuse to believe the clear scientific data about COVID, preferring to believe conspiracy theories and medical cranks.
This view is false. Or rather: conspiracy theories and partisanship abound, but they are downstream phenomena, consequences of a more fundamental reality, and combatting them directly is useless unless and until the underlying cause is addressed. The underlying cause is the conjunction of two things:
These facts create a scenario in which a great many people, if they had been given a free choice between getting COVID or putting up with COVID restrictions, would have chosen to just get the disease. But of course they weren't given that choice. The choice was taken from them and made instead by politicians and bureaucrats working with murky legal justification, and thus the very real harms of COVID suppression were felt by everyone while the harms of the disease itself remained abstract, or were experienced and found to be small.
That latter point is important. I have a family member who lives in the rural Midwest, with all that that implies. They mostly complied with COVID restrictions in the early parts of the pandemic, but stopped doing so around summer of 2020 and were in open (if informal) rebellion against such things during the wave of winter 2020 and beyond. As one might predict, their community was hit with an enormous COVID Delta wave. Their entire family was infected and fell ill, as did the majority of their friends and acquaintances, with their church (which continued holding services unmasked this entire time) being a major hub of infection.
And the end result?
There were zero fatalities of anyone actually known to them. Not a single one. Not even a hospitalization.
It's important to point out that this is not an anomalous result. Given the total CFR of COVID (~0.5%), the expected number of fatalities in a Dunbar-sized group is less than one. The modal experience of COVID is that nobody you know dies. The next most common experience is that only one person dies, probably somebody elderly.
And under such circumstances, what are they supposed to think about the supposed dire consequences of failing to comply with COVID regulations? They already endured the full brunt of an unmitigated COVID wave and lived through the worst-case scenario that the government was trying to save them from. At this point, no amount of "believing experts" or "following the science" could possibly dislodge them from their belief, formed by direct personal experience, that COVID is no big deal. And with regards to future precautions, they're not even wrong. Their whole community now has natural immunity which reduces the likelihood of future reinfections and severe complications. It's unlikely that they'll even notice Omicron when it passes through.
I believe that this pattern holds up at larger scales. I do not know of any source which directly compares beliefs about COVID severity with opinions on restrictions, but there was this fairly famous finding reported by the NYT:
If we accept that party affiliation is a rough proxy for one's opinions on COVID restrictions, then we see that having accurate beliefs about COVID severity is correlated with opposition to such restrictions. (I would be interested in any studies which directly measure this.)
This is the scenario which breeds conspiracy theories. People observed the government, media, and large corporations acting in apparent unison to prevent a disease which barely kills anyone, and concluded that something fishy was going on. Conspiracy theories about COVID existed from the very beginning, but I have observed firsthand their spread from a conspiratorial fringe to... basically everyone who is even slightly right-of-center. Even people who are themselves vaccinated have bought into conspiracy theories about vaccines, with their resentment and suspicion only increased by the fact that they were coerced into getting a medical procedure that they did not want.
But it's important to note that this is an ulterior consequence of the way that the pandemic has played out, not the underlying cause. People don't oppose COVID restrictions because they believe conspiracy theories; they believe conspiracy theories because they oppose COVID restrictions.
Now let's return to our poor time-traveling bureaucrat.
The bureaucrat has a spreadsheet which aggregates death rates from thousands of Dunbar-sized communities. His frustration arises because while every individual in these communities may find the costs of COVID to be bearable, they collectively add up to hundreds of thousands of excess deaths, which does not seem to be bearable. Thus, he finds it necessary to do something, and as a bureaucrat his only tool is to pass regulations. Furthermore, while he might notice the financial costs of his policies, the emotional and social costs aren't captured on a spreadsheet at all, and so might as well not exist. So he implements a policy which seems like an obvious win, only to meet something which seems to him like irrational opposition.
The community itself, meanwhile, suffers from the opposite problem of scale. They feel the economic and social costs of COVID regulations directly, but the weight of the hundreds of thousands dead is spread so thin that they barely notice it.
I don't know if there is a general way to reconcile these views. Mostly, I blame the bureaucrat, who is allowing himself to think that his spreadsheet captures all relevant information, and the history of COVID response over the past two years is like a parable about the Goodhart's Law implications of treating COVID case counts as a target to optimized. I do think that the main way to accomplish both the community's and the bureaucrat's goals is to simply reduce the cost of COVID suppression. Here I speak more tentatively, but the following seem to me to be generally true:
Can we learn these lessons in time for the next pandemic? Unfortunately, if the next pandemic is less than forty years away, I fear that we cannot. At this point a big chunk of the population is pre-radicalized against heavy-handed intervention, and conversely the bureaucratic-managerial class seems to have learned exactly the wrong lessons. Somehow restoring a functional relationship between these classes strikes me as a much higher priority than any specific policy change.
This is, to put it mildly, a hard problem, because the existing dynamic is frankly abusive. The past two years have seen the state and elite institutions inflict harmful regulations... and claim that it's for our own good... then the "good" of ending the pandemic never actually materialized... then the continuing pandemic was blamed on us for not obeying hard enough. This is the classic pattern of an abusive parent. Is it any wonder that so many people have taken the tack of vocal rebellion or quiet non-compliance?
And can you honestly claim that any of the FDA, the CDC, the WHO, or your state government actually deserve our deference and respect at this point?
So the real task of pandemic preparedness may not be to think up good policies that our institutions can implement, nor to somehow educate people out of conspiracy theories, nor (worse) to simply suppress such conspiracy theories. The real task is to have institutions worth listening to in the first place.
This is almost exactly how it went when my wife got COVID. I caught it from her a few days later, but I never developed a fever and suffered only sinus headaches and a persistent cough. ↩︎
In the summer of 2020 I wanted to write an article along these lines called "You Should Get COVID". Unfortunately I never got around to it, and at this point it's moot. ↩︎