If it's worth saying, but not worth its own post (even in Discussion), then it goes here.

Open thread, January 25- February 1
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Every now and then I like to review my old writings so I can cringe at all the wrong things I wrote, and say "oops" for each of them. Here we go...

There was once a time when the average human couldn't expect to live much past age thirty. (Jul 2012)

That's probably wrong. IIRC, previous eras' low life expectancy was mostly due to high child mortality.

We have not yet mentioned two small but significant developments leading us to agree with Schmidhuber (2012) that "progress toward self-improving AIs is already substantially beyond what many futurists and philosophers are aware of." These two developments are Marcus Hutter's universal and provably optimal AIXI agent model... and Jurgen Schmidhuber's universal self-improving Godel machine models... (May 2012)

This sentence is defensible for certain definitions of "significant," but I think it was a mistake to include this sentence (and the following quotes from Hutter and Schmidhuber) in the paper. AIXI and Godel machines probably aren't particularly important pieces of progress to AGI worth calling out like that. I added those paragraphs to section 2.4. not long before the submission deadline, and re... (read more)

On September 26, 1983, Soviet officer Stanislav Petrov saved the world. (Nov 2011)

Eh, not really.

The Wiki link in the linked LW post seems to be closer to "Stanislav Petrov saved the world" than "not really":

Petrov judged the report to be a false alarm, and his decision is credited with having prevented an erroneous retaliatory nuclear attack

...

His colleagues were all professional soldiers with purely military training and, following instructions, would have reported a missile strike if they had been on his shift.

...

Petrov, as an individual, was not in a position where he could single-handedly have launched any of the Soviet missile arsenal. ... But Petrov's role was crucial in providing information to make that decision. According to Bruce Blair, a Cold War nuclear strategies expert and nuclear disarmament advocate, formerly with the Center for Defense Information, "The top leadership, given only a couple of minutes to decide, told that an attack had been launched, would make a decision to retaliate."

A closely related article says:

Petrov's responsibilities included observing the satellite early warning network and notifying his sup

... (read more)
[-]gjm170

previous eras' low life expectancy was mostly due to high child mortality.

I have long thought that the very idea of "life expectancy at birth" is a harmful one, because it encourages exactly that sort of confusion. It lumps together two things (child mortality and life expectancy once out of infancy) with sufficiently different causes and sufficiently different effects that they really ought to be kept separate.

3TylerJay
Does anybody have a source that separates the two out? For example, to what age can the average X year old today expect to live? Or even at a past time?
7Lumifer
Sure, there is the concept of life expectancy at specific age. For example, there is the "default" life expectancy at birth, there is the life expectancy for a 20 year-old, life expectancy for a 60-year-old, etc. Just google it up.
4fubarobfusco
It's kind of important to the life insurance business ....
2TylerJay
Thanks. Interestingly, My numbers never matched up between any 2 sources. The US SSA's actuarial tables give me a number that's 5 years different from their own "additional life expectancy" calculator.
3ChrisHallquist
Huh. I followed the link to the correction of the Petrov story, and found I'd already upvoted it. But if you'd asked me yesterday for examples of heroes yesterday, I'd have cited Petrov immediately. S hows how hard it is to unlearn false information once you've learned it.
2Gunnar_Zarncke
Smart move not only to review but post the results. Shows humbleness and at the same time prevents being called on it later. This is an approach I'd like to see more often. Maybe you should add it to the http://lesswrong.com/lw/h7d/grad_student_advice_repository/ or some such.
0private_messaging
On the AIXI and such... you see, its just hard to appreciate just how much training it takes to properly understand something like that. Very intelligent people, with very high mental endurance, train for decades, to be able to mentally manipulate the relevant concepts at their base level. Now, let's say someone only spent a small fraction of the time - either because they've pursued a wrong topic through the most critical years, or because they have low mental endurance. Unless they're impossibly intelligent, they have no chance of forming even a merely good understanding.

I've been systematically downvoted for the past 16 days. Every day or two, I'd lose about 10 karma. So far, I've lost a total of about 160 karma.

It's not just somebody just going through my comments and downvoting the ones they disagree with. Even a comment where I said "thanks" when somebody pointed out a formatting error in my comments is now at -1.

I'm not sure what can/should be done about this, but I thought I should post it here. And if the person who did this is here and there is a reason, I would appreciate it if you would say it here.

A quick look at the first page of your recent comments shows most of your recent activity to have been in the recent "Is Less Wrong too scary to marginalized groups?" firestorm.

One of the most recent users to complain about mass downvoting also cited participation in flame-bait topics (specifically gender).

3gjm
I would prefer to see a little less victim-blaming here. (I'm not sure whether you intended it as such -- but that phrase "participation in flame-bait topics" sounds like it.)

That was not my intention. (If it's any consolation, I participated in the same firestorm.)

1drethelin
How is this victim blaming? As I interpret it the claim is that the person was probably NOT the victim of systematic downvoting but instead made a lot of comments that are counter to what people like to hear, creating the illusion of same.
8gjm
Hard to explain getting downvoted for as being about saying things "counter to what people like to hear". Which is why I didn't interpret CAE_Jones as suggesting that that's what was going on.
0CAE_Jones
For what it's worth, I agree with gjm that "flame-bait" was a poor choice of words on my part, and I understand how it could have been taken as victim-blaming in spite of my intentions.
9pragmatist
Gah... This is becoming way too common, and it seems like there's pretty good evidence (further supported in this instance) regarding the responsible party. I wish someone with the power to do so would do something about it.
7ChrisHallquist
For context, link to past discussion of mass-downvoting.
6Vulture
I got a seemingly one-time hit of this about a week ago. For what it's worth I had just been posting comments on the subject of rape, but a whole bunch of my unrelated comments got it too. (Since then it's been having an obnoxious deterrent effect on my commenting, because I feel so precariously close to just accumulating negative karma every time I post, leaving readers with the impression that my ideas have all been identified as worthless by someone probably cleverer than themselves. I'm now consciously trying to avoid thinking like this)
4VAuroch
I have experienced this also, though roughly a month ago, after an extended debate on trans* issues specifically. I responded by messaging the person I had argued with, and politely asking that, if it was them who had been downvoting me, they please stop going through my comment history. I got no response, but the stream of downvotes seemed to tail off shortly thereafter. EDIT: As a side note, the person with whom I had been debating/arguing was the same one that showed up in the thread ChrisHallquist linked. It looks like it's a pattern of behavior for him.
-2Gunnar_Zarncke
I have blindly upvoted your 10 most recent comments. This is meant as consolation but likely a one-time action .
-14Dias
-10Dias

Robin Hanson on Facebook:

Academic futurism has low status. This causes people interested in futurism to ignore those academics and instead listen to people who talk about futurism after gaining high status via focusing on other topics. As a result, the people who are listened to on the future tend to be amateurs, not specialists. And this is why "we" know a lot less about the future than we could.

Consider the case of Willard Wells and his Springer-published book Apocalypse When?: Calculating How Long the Human Race Will Survive (2009). From a UCSD news story about a talk Wells gave about the book:

Larry Carter, a UCSD emeritus professor of computer science, didn’t mince words. The first time he heard about Wells’s theories, he thought, “Oh my God, is this guy a crackpot?”

But persuaded by Well’s credentials, which include a PhD from Caltech in math and theoretical physics, a career that led him L-3 Photonics and the Caltech/Jet Propulsion Laboratory, and an invention under his belt, Carter gave the ideas a chance. And was intrigued.

For a taste of the book, here is Wells' description of one specific risk:

When advanced robots arrive... the serious threat [will be] h

... (read more)
7RobinHanson
Yes by judging someone on their credentials in other fields, you can't tell if they are just making stuff up on this subject vs. studied it for 15 years.
6VincentYu
Wells's book: Apocalypse when. I took a quick skim through the book. Your focused criticism of Wells's book is somewhat unfair. The majority of the book (ch. 1–4) is about a survival analysis of doomsday risks. The scenario you quoted is in the last chapter (ch. 5), which looks like an afterthought to the main intent of the book (i.e., providing the survival analysis), and is prepended by the following disclaimer: I think it is fair to criticize the crackpot scenario that he gave as an example, but your criticism seems to suggest that his entire book is of the same crackpot nature, which it is not. It is unfortunate that PR articles and public attention focuses on the insubstantial parts of the book, but I am sure you know what that is like as the same occurs frequently to MIRI/SIAI's ideas. Orthogonal notes on the book's content: Wells seems unaware of Bostrom's work on observation selection effects, and it appears that he implicitly uses SSA. (I have not carefully read enough of his book to form an opinion on his analysis, nor do I currently know enough about survival analysis to know whether what he does is standard.)
2lukeprog
Ah, you're right that I should have quoted the "This set serves as a foil" paragraph as well. I found chs. 1-4 pretty unconvincing, too, though I'm still glad that analysis exists.
3James_Miller
Yes, I'm an academic and I get a similar reaction from telling people I study the Singularity as when I say I've signed up for cryonics. Thankfully, I have tenure.
2Halfwitz
What happens when you say, "I study the economic implications of advanced artificial inteligence," to people?
0James_Miller
I don't phrase it this way.
0Randy_M
Do you actually say you "study the singularity" or give a more in depth explanation? I ask because the word study is usually used only in reference to things that do or have exisited, rather than to speculative future events.
0James_Miller
I go into more depth, especially when I (unsuccessfully) came up for promotion for full professor.
2Kawoomba
It might be a worthwhile endeavor to modify our wiki such that it serves not only as a mostly local reference on current terms and jargon, but also as an independent guide to the various arguments for and against various concepts, where applicable. It could create a lot of credibility and exposure to establish a sort of neutral reference guide / an argument map / the history and iterations an idea has gone through, in a neutral voice. Ideally, neutrality regarding PoV works in favor of those with the balance of arguments in their favor. This need not be entirely new material, but instead simply a few mandatory / recommended headers in each wiki entry, pertaining to history, counterarguments etc. Could be worth it lifting the wiki from relative obscurity, with a new landing page, and marketed potentially as a reference guide for journalists researching current topics. Kruel's LW interview with Shane Legg got linked to in a NYTimes blog, why not a suitable LW wiki article, too?
1ChristianKl
I don't think that's the case. Most people who are listened to on the future don't tend to speak to an audience primarily consisting of futurists. There are think tanks who employee people to think about the future and those think tanks tend generally to be quite good at influencing the public debate. I also don't think that academic has any special claim to be specialists about the future. When I think about specialists on futurism names like Stewart Brand or Bruce Sterling.
1IlyaShpitser
This is a very important and general point. While it is important to communicate ideas to a general audience, generally excessive communication to general audiences at the expense of communication to peers should be "bad news" when it comes to evaluating experts. Folks like Witten mostly just get work done, they don't write popular science books.
0ChristianKl
Witten doesn't ring a bell with me. Googling the name might mean Edward Witten and Tarynn Madysyn Witten. Do you mean either or them or someone else?
6IlyaShpitser
I mean Edward Witten, one of the most prominent physicists alive. The fact that his name does not ring a bell is precisely my point. The names that do ring a bell are the names of folks who are "good at the media," not necessarily folks who are the best in their field.
0ChristianKl
Okay, given that the subject is theoretical physics and I'm not much into that field I understand why I have no recognition. When looking at his Wikipedia I see he made Time 100 so it still might be worth knowing the name.
3Ander
Witten is one of the greatest physicists alive, if not the greatest. He is the one who unified the various string theories into M-theory. He is also the only physicist to receive a Fields Medal.
[-]gwern240

Some names familiar to LWers seem to have just made their fortunes (again, in some cases); http://recode.net/2014/01/26/exclusive-google-to-buy-artificial-intelligence-startup-deepmind-for-400m/ (via HN)

Google is shelling out $400 million to buy a secretive artificial intelligence company called DeepMind....Based in London, DeepMind was founded by games prodigy and neuroscientist Demis Hassabis, Skype & Kazaa developer Jaan Tallin and researcher Shane Legg.

I liked Legg's blog & papers and was sad when he basically stopped in the interests of working on his company, but one can hardly argue with the results.

EDIT: bigger discussion at http://lesswrong.com/r/discussion/lw/jks/google_may_be_trying_to_take_over_the_world/#comments - new aspects: $500m, not $400m; DeepMind proposes an ethics board

I'm going to do the unthinkable: start memorizing mathematical results instead of deriving them.

Okay, unthinkable is hyperbole. But I've noticed a tendency within myself to regard rote memorization of things to be unbecoming of a student of mathematics and physics. An example: I was recently going through a set of practice problems for a university entrance exam, and calculators were forbidden. One of the questions required a lot of trig, and half the time I spent solving the problem was just me trying to remember or re-derive simple things like the arcsin of 0.5 and so on. I knew how to do it, but since I only have a limited amount of working memory, actually doing it was very inefficient because it led to a lot of backtracking and fumbling. In the same sense, I know how to derive all of my multiplication tables, but doing it every time I need to multiply two numbers together is obviously wrong. I don't know how widespread this is, but at least in my school, memorization was something that was left to the lower-status, less able people who couldn't grasp why certain results were true. I had gone along with this idea without thinking about it critically.

So these are the things I'm ... (read more)

[-]Shmi180

In my experience memorization often comes for free when you strive for fluency through repetition. You end up remembering the quadratic formula after solving a few hundred quadratic equations. Same with the trig identities. I probably still remember all the most common identities years out of school, owing to the thousands (no exaggeration) of trig problems I had to solve in high school and uni. And can derive the rest in under a minute.

Memorization through solving problems gives you much more than anki decks, however: you end up remembering the roads, not just the signposts, so to speak, which is important for solving test problems quickly.

You are right that "the reduction in mental effort required on basic operations will rapidly compound to allow for much greater fluency with harder problems", I am not sure that anki is the best way to achieve this reduction, though it is certainly worth a try.

4ChristianKl
In general there the core principle of spaced repetition that you don't put something into the system that you don't already understand. When trying to memorize mathematical results make sure that you only add cards when you really have a mental understanding. Using Anki to avoid forgetting basic operations is great. If you however add a bunch of information that's complex, you will forget it and waste a lot of time.
5whales
That's true if you're just using spaced repetition to memorize, although I'd add that it's still often helpful to overlearn definitions and simple results just past the boundaries of your understanding, along the lines of Prof. Ravi Vakil's advice for potential students: The second point I'd make is that the spacing effect (distributed practice) works for complex learning goals as well, although it will help if your practice consists of more than rote recall.
1ChristianKl
If you learn definitions it's important to sit down and actually understand the definition. If you write a card before you understand it, that will lead to problems.
2bramflakes
Yeah, I'm wary of that fact and I've learned the downsides of it through experience :)
2whales
Nice, and good luck! I'm glad to see that my post resonated with someone. For rhetorical purposes, I didn't temper my recommendations as much as I could have -- I still think building mental models through deliberate practice in solving difficult problems is at the core of physics education. I treat even "signpost" flashcards as opportunities to rehearse a web of connections rather than as the quiz "what's on the other side of this card?" If an angle-addition formula came up, I'd want to recall the easy derivation in terms of complex exponentials and visualize some specific cases on the unit circle, at least at first. I also use cards like that in addition to cards which are themselves mini-problems.

In this article, Eliezer says:

Bad argument gets counterargument. Does not get bullet. Never. Never ever never for ever.

Recently, a similar phrase popped into my head, which I found quite useful:

Confusion gets curiosity. Does not get anger, disgust or fear. Never. Never ever never for ever.

That's all.

3[anonymous]
I don't know what you mean precisely by confusion, but I personally can't always control what my immediate primal level response is to certain situations. If I try to strictly avoid certain feelings, I usually end up convincing myself that I'm not feeling that way when actually I am. I'd rather notice what I'm feeling and then move on from there, it's probably easier to control your thinking that way. Just because you're angry doesn't mean you have to act like angry.
1Stabilizer
That's basically what I meant. The move is to notice the anger, fear or disgust and then realize that this emotion isn't useful and can be actively detrimental. Then consciously try to switch to curiosity. Of course, I couldn't condense the full messiness of reality into a pithy saying.
0[anonymous]
"Make yourself feel curiosity" is not very concretely actionable in the short term. If you want to coin near-mode actionable advice, instead of a far-mode affirmation of positive emotions, you might say something like, "The proper responses to feelings of confusion are orienting and exploring behaviors". Those behaviors should be unpacked to more specific things like looking at your surroundings, asking questions of nearby people, searching your memory for situation-relevant information, and planning an experiment or other (navigable) (causal) path to sources of information. Those levels should be fleshed out and made more concrete too. Now that I've given some helpful advice, I think I've earned an opportunity to express some cynicism: cheering for curiosity and exploration over anger, disgust, and fear shows a stereotypical value alignment of affluent, socially tolerant people in safe environments. The advice you give will not serve you will in adversarial games like chess. It will not serve you well in combat or social competition. It is in many situations harmful advice. Separate and unrelated, I would not like to see this template for inarticulately expressing advice continued. Mostly I say this for the same reasons that we don't make use of reaction .gifs and image macros on lesswrong. There is also a small concern that variants of familiar phrases are harder to evaluate critically, much as the mnemonic device of rhyme apparently makes some specific phrasings of claims more credible than others phrasings of those same claims.

PSA: You can download from scribd without paying, you just need to upload a file first (apparently any file -- it can be a garbage pdf or even a pdf that's already on scribd). They say this at the very bottom of their pricing page, but I didn't notice until just now.

Hello, we are organizing monthly rationality meetups in Vienna - we have previously used the account of one of our members (ratcourse) but would like to switch to this account (rationalityvienna). Please upvote this account for creating rationality vienna meetups.

Reason #k Why I <3 Pomodoros:

They really help me get over akrasia. I beemind how many pomodoros I do per week, so I do tasks I would otherwise procrastinate if I can do 20 minutes of them (yes, I do short pomodoros) and get to enter a data point at the end. Often I find that the task is much shorter/less awful than it felt in the abstract.

Example: I just moved today, and didn't have that much to unpack, but decided I'd do it tomorrow, because I felt tired and it would presumably be long and unpleasant. But then I realized I could get a pomodoro out of it (plus permission from myself to stop after 20 min and go to bed). Turns out it took 11 minutes and now I'm all set up!

3Qiaochu_Yuan
I do this all the time and it's great!

Even if you know that signaling is stupid, it doesn't escape the cost of not signaling.

It's a longstanding trope that Eliezer gets a lot of flack for having no formal education. Formal education is not the only way to gain knowledge, but it is a way of signaling knowledge, and it's not very easy to fake (Not so easy to fake that it falls apart as a credential on its own). Has anyone toyed around with the idea of sending him off to get a math degree somewhere? He might learn something, and if not it's a breezy recap of what he already knows. He comes out the other side without the eternal "has no formal education" tagline, and a whole new slew of acquaintances.

Now, I understand that there may be good reasons not to, and I'd very much appreciate someone pointing me to any previous discussion in which this has been ruled out. Otherwise, how feasible does it sound to crowdfund a "Here's your tuition and an extra sum of money to cover the opportunity cost of your time, I don't care how unfair it is that people won't take you seriously without credentials, go study something useful, make friends with your professors, and get out with the minimum number of credits possible" scholarship?

Has anyone toyed around with the idea of sending him off to get a math degree somewhere?

I think the bigger issue w/ people not taking EY seriously is he does not communicate (e.g. publish peer reviewed papers). Facebook stream of consciousness does not count. Conditional on great papers, credentials don't mean that much (otherwise people would never move up the academic status chain).

Yes it is too bad that writing things down clearly takes a long time.

Somehow I doubt I will ever persuade Eliezer to write in a style fit for a journal, but even still, I'll briefly mention that Eliezer is currently meeting with a "mathematical exposition aimed at math researchers" tutor. I don't know yet what the effects will be, but it seemed (to Eliezer and I) a worthwhile experiment.

4Paul Crowley
Presumably if MIRI were awash with funding you'd pay experts to make papers out of Eliezer's work, freeing Eliezer up for other things?

That's basically what another of our ongoing experiments is.

5iconreforged
True. It seems like the great-papers avenue is being pursued full-steam these days with MIRI, but I wonder if they're going to run out of low-hanging fruit to publish, or if mainstream academia is going to drag their heels replying to them.

I don't think you understand signaling well.

Eliezer managed signaling well enough to get a billionaire to fund him on his project. A billionaire who fund people who drop out of college systematically in projects like his 20 Under 20 program.

Trying to go the traditional route wouldn't fit into the highly effective image that he already signals.

Put another way, the purpose of signaling isn't so nobody will give you crap. It's so somebody will help you accomplish your goals.

People will give you crap, especially if they can get paid to do so. See gossip journalists, for instance. They are not paid to give boring and unsuccessful people crap; they are paid to give interesting and successful people crap.

2David_Gerard
Your last para would imply that not getting crap from gossip journalists means you are not interesting or successful. Eliezer/MIRI gets almost no press. Are you sure that's what you meant?
6fubarobfusco
Eliezer gets a lot more press than I do, which is just fine with me.
1iconreforged
Well, yes, there is going to be some inevitable crap, but the purpose of signalling is so that you could impress a much larger pool of people. So it might not be much help for gossip journalists, but it might help with the marginal professional ethicist, mathematician, or public figure. In that area, you might get some additional "Anybody who can do that must be damn impressive.". Does the additional damn-impressive outweigh the cost? I don't know, that's why I'm asking.
0A1987dM
The discussion about mean vs variance in this post may be relevant.
6James_Miller
Peter Thiel (the billionaire) has the proven ability to spot talent, which is why he is a billionaire. Eliezer has traits that Thiel values, and this is probably much more important than any signal Eliezer sent.
5iconreforged
Impressing Thiel is independent of a future degree or not, because he's already impressed. Where's the next billionaire going to come from, and will they coincidentally also be as contrarian as Thiel? Maybe MIRI doesn't need another billionaire, but I don't think they'd turn one away.
9ChristianKl
I think the deal that Eliezer has with Thiel is that Eliezer does MIRI full time. Switching focus to getting a degree might violate the deal. Gives that Thiel has a lot of money impressing Thiel more might also be very useful if they want more money from him. Do you really think that someone who isn't contrarian will put his money into MIRI? The present set up is quite okay. Those who want people with academic credentials can give their money to FHI. Those who want more contrarian people can give their money to MIRI. Whether or not Eliezer has a degree doesn't change that he's the kind of person who has a public Okcupid profile detailing his sexual habits and the fact that he's polyamorous. When Steve Job was alive and run around in a sweater, he didn't cause people to disregard him because he wasn't wearing a suit. People respect the person who's a contrarian who's okay with not everyone liking him. The contrarian who tries to get every to like them on the other hand get's no respect.
0drethelin
On the other hand if he decides to get a degree and pulls it off in a year or something impressive like that it could just feed into the contrarian genius image.
0ChristianKl
Yes, but that would prokbably either mean paying someone else to do your homework with means that you are vunerable to attack or making studying the sole focus for a year.
4buybuydandavis
Yes, the autodidact signal can be tremendously effective, particularly in tech/libertarian company.
4jimmy
In addition "getting flak" isn't necessarily a bad thing. It can be counter-signaling if you can get flak and stay standing. It can also polarize people and separate those who can evaluate the inside arguments to realize that you're good from those who can't and have to just write you off for having no formal education.
2iconreforged
Eddie has some math talent. He can invest some time, money, and effort C to get a degree, which allows other people to discern that he has a higher probability of having that math talent. This higher probability confers some benefit in that other people will more readily take his advice in mathematical matters, or talk with him about his math. The fun twist is that Eddie lives in a society with many other individuals with varying degrees of math talent, each of whom can expend C to get a degree and the associated benefits. People with almost no mathematical talent have a prohibitively high C, because even if they can pony up the time and money, they have to work very hard to fake their way through. But people with high math ability often choose to stand out by getting the degree, because their C is relatively lower, and a very high proportion of them get degrees. This creates a high association between degrees and mathematical ability, and makes it unlikely to see high mathematical ability in the absence of a degree. That's the basic idea, plus degrees signal other things which may be completely unrelated to math, but are still nice. Even in the case where the degree has no causal effect no math ability, there are benefits to having one, in that the other math people can judge very quickly that they're interested in talking to you. Hopefully that demonstrates that I understand signalling. My question is about the costs and benefits of a particular signal.
-3ChristianKl
It demonstrate that you don't. Humans make decisions via something called the availability heuristic. If you bring into the awareness of the person that you are talking that you are a mathematician that only has a bachleor, no master, no PHD and no professorship that you aren't bringing expertise into his mind. If you are however a self taught person who managed to published multiple papers among them a paper titled "Complex Value Systems in Friendly AI" in Artificial General Intelligence Lecture Notes in Computer Science Volume and who has his own research institute that's a better picture. If you have published papers that a lot more relevant for relevant experts than whether you have a degree that verifies basic understanding. If a person really cares whether Eliezer has a math degree he already lost that person.
1iconreforged
I'm not certain that getting a degree now counts as the traditional route. Also, I don't think that an additional degree is particularly damaging to his image. People aren't going to lose interest in FAI if he sells out and gets a traditional degree. Or they are and I have no idea what kind of people are involved.
9jsteinhardt
4 years (or even 1 year if you are super hard-core) of time is a pretty non-trivial investment. I was 2 classes away from a second degree and declined to take them, because the ~100 hours of work it would have taken wasn't worth the additional letters after my name. I also just really don't know anyone relevant who thinks that a college degree or lack thereof particularly matters (although the knowledge and skills acquired in the course of pursuing said degree may matter a lot). Good people will judge you by what you've done to demonstrate skill, not based on a college diploma. I think IlyaShpitser's comment pretty much nails it.
0[anonymous]
I came to the same conclusion, and in general a lack of degree has not impacted me as I get employment based on demonstrated skill. The main limitation is that any formal Postgrad study is impossible without a degree and this was a regret for me, prior to getting access to the coursera type courses.
8A1987dM
If you buy into the “crunch time” narrative, that's a lot of opportunity cost.
2drethelin
This might have been a good call 10 years ago but nowadays Eliezer is participating in regular face to face meetings with skilled mathematicians and scientists in the context of constructing and analyzing theorems and decision strategies. This means that for a large amount of the people who are most important to convince, he gets to screen out all the "evidence" of not having a degree. And to a large extent, someone having the respect of a bunch of math phds is more important a qualifier of talent than having that phd themselves. There's theoretically still the problem of selling Eliezer to the muggles but I don't think that's anywhere near as important as getting serious thinkers on board.
0Viliam_Bur
Different target groups may use different signals. For example, for a scientist the citations may be more important than formal education. For an ordinary person with a university diploma who never published anything anywhere, formal education will probably remain the most important signal, because that's what they use. A smart sponsor may instead consider the ability of getting things done. And the New Age fans will debate about how much Eliezer fits the definitions of an "indigo child". If the goal is to impress people for whom having an university diploma is the most important signal (they are a majority of the population), the best way would be to find an university which gives the diploma for minimum time and energy spent. Perhaps one where you just pay some money (hopefully not too much), take a few easy exams, and that's it; you don't have to spend time at the lessons. After this, no one can technically say that Eliezer has "no formal education". (And if they start discussing the quality of the university, then Eliezer can point to his citations.) The idea is to do this as easily as possible... assuming it's even worth doing. There are also other things to consider, such as the fact that other people working with Eliezer do have formal education... so why exactly is it a problem if Eliezer doesn't? Does MIRI seem from outside like one man show? Maybe that should be fixed.
0kalium
A diploma mill degree like you describe is not going to get any respect from the (large) population that went to a real university.
0[anonymous]
Would getting more citations partly nullify the lack of formal education?

A recent experience reminded me that basics are really important. On LW we talk a lot about advanced aspects of rationality.

If you would have to describe the basics, what would you say? What things are so obvious for you about rationality that they usually go without saying?

You can frequently make your life better by paying attention to what you're doing, looking for possible improvements, trying your ideas, and observing whether the improvements happen.

9Leonhart
There is no magic. I am not in a story. Words are detachable handles.
0Shmi
Brilliant.
5Qiaochu_Yuan
I run on hardware that was optimized by millions of years of evolution to do the sort of things my ancestors did tens of thousands of years ago, not the sort of things I do now.
2edanm
1. People can change (e.g. update on beliefs, self-improve). 2. How to choose your actions - think about your goals, think what steps achieve them in the best way, act on those steps. 3. There is such a thing as objective truth. Amazing how the basic pillars of rationality are things other people so often don't agree with, even though they seem so dead obvious to me.
2hyporational
This is a fun exercise. The list could be a lot longer than I originally expected. * belief is about evidence * 0 and 1 are not probabilities * Occam's razor * strawman and steelman * privileging the hypothesis * tabooing * instrumental-terminal distinction of values * don't pull probabilities out of your posterior * introspection is often wrong * intuitions are often wrong * general concept of heuristics and biases * confirmation and disconfirmation bias * halo effect * knowing about biases doesn't unbias you * denotations and connotations * many more
4bramflakes
"not technically lying" is de facto lying
0hyporational
This might be useful for staying honest to yourself and perhaps your allies, but it's also useful to keep in mind that most people give different kinds of lies different degrees of moral weight.
2ChristianKl
Nice list, even a bit that's basic enough that I can put it into an Anki deck about teaching rationality (a long term project of mine but at the moment I doesn't have enough cards for release).
0hyporational
I'd like to hear about the experience if you're willing to share it. How basic are we talking about? This older discussion thread seems to ask a similar question and some answers are relevant to your question. If you think your question phrased in a more specific way would elicit different kinds of responses, it might deserve its own thread.
0ChristianKl
The experience wasn't about the domain of rationality but another subject and the relationships of concepts in that framework. If don't think it's useful for people without the experience of the framework. As basic as you can get. What is the most basic thing you can say about rationality. If your reaction is: "Duh, I don't know nothing comes to mind", that's exactly why it might be worthwhile to investigate the issue. Recently there was a discussion about vocabulary for rationality and someone made the point that things can be said either implicit or explicit. Implicitness and explicitness are pretty basic concepts.
[-]MarkL110

My meditation blog from a (somewhat) rationalist perspective is now past 40 posts:

http://meditationstuff.wordpress.com/

2moridinamael
Do you have any material for dealing with chronic pain? Or material that could conceivably be leveraged to apply to chronic pain management?
4MarkL
I'm coming at this from ten years of brain fog, unrefreshing sleep, "feeling sick all the time," etc. Mostly better now; I did a lot of stuff highly specific to my situation. The below mostly helped with enduring it. Remember, I'm just some random idiot on the internet, hope this is helpful, and in no particular order: * http://www.amazon.com/Awareness-Through-Movement-Easy---Do/dp/0062503227/ * http://www.amazon.com/The-Lover-Within-Opening-Practice/dp/1581770170 * http://www.amazon.com/Male-Multiple-Orgasm-Step---Step/dp/1882899067/ * http://store.breathingcenter.com/books---in-english/buteyko-breathing-manual-download * http://www.amazon.com/Acceptance-Commitment-Therapy-Second-Edition/dp/1609189620/ * http://www.amazon.com/Get-Your-Mind-Into-Life/dp/1572244259 * http://www.amazon.com/Exposure-Therapy-Anxiety-Principles-Practice/dp/146250969X/ * http://www.coherencetherapy.org/resources/manual.htm * http://meditationstuff.wordpress.com/2013/07/22/additive-meditation/ * http://www.amazon.com/Compassion-Focused-Therapy-Distinctive-Features/dp/0415448077/ * http://www.butyoudontlooksick.com/wpress/articles/written-by-christine/the-spoon-theory/ * http://www.amazon.com/HIIT-Intensity-Interval-Training-Explained/dp/1477421599/ * Some of John Sarno's stuff

John_Maxwell_IV and I were recently wondering about whether it's a good idea to try to drink more water. At the moment my practice is "drink water ad libitum, and don't make too much of an effort to always have water at hand". But I could easily switch to "drink ad libitum, and always have a bottle of water at hand". Many people I know follow the second rule, and this definitely seems like something that's worth researching more because it literally affects every single day of your life. Here are the results of 3 minutes of googling:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002822399000486:

Dehydration of as little as 1% decrease in body weight results in impaired physiological and performance responses (4), (5) and (6), and is discussed in more detail below. It affects a wide range of cardiovascular and thermoregulatory responses (7), (8), (9), (10), (11), (12), (13) and (14).

The Nationwide Food Consumption Surveys indicate that a portion of the population may be chronically mildly dehydrated. Several factors may increase the likelihood of chronic, mild dehydration, including a poor thirst mechanism, dissatisfaction with the taste of water, common co

... (read more)
9ephion
Extended sedentary periods are bad for you, so if drinking extra water also makes you get up and walk to the bathroom, that's a win-win.
3hyporational
Except when you're trying to sleep.
2hyporational
While you're at it, you probably should also research how much water is too much, because on the other side of the spectrum lies hyponatremia and having suboptimal electrolyte levels from overdosing water could be harmful to your cognition too, although I think it's unlikely anyone here will develop a measurable hyponatremia just from drinking too much water. Sweating a lot for example might change the situation. This doesn't look like a selective enough heuristic alone.
2ChristianKl
As far as water consumption goes I feel the difference between drinking one liter or four liter per day. I just feel much better with four liter. There were times two years ago when unless I had drunk 4 liter by the time I entered my Salsa dancing location in the evening, my muscle coordination was worse and the dancing didn't flow well. Does that mean that everyone has to drink 4 liters to be at his optimum? No, it doesn't. Get a feel how different amounts of water consumption effect you. For me the effect was clear to see without even needing to do QS. Even it's not as clear for you do QS.
2John_Maxwell
Thanks for writing this up. Lots of things fall in to this category :) In case it's not obvious: this probably means in the absence of food/fluid consumption. You can't go on losing 2.5 litres of water a day indefinitely.
0Randy_M
I assumed it wasn't net, but the amount of water excreted, regardless of consumption. Though those probably are not unrelated processes.
0A1987dM
Anecdotally, I feel less lazy when I drink lots of water, but for all I know it might well be placebo.
4Gurkenglas
We should do a placebo study on the effects of drinking water.
[-]Locaha100

Repeating my post from the last open thread, for better visibility:

I want to study probability and statistics in a deeper way than the Probability and Statistics course I had to take in the university. The problem is, my mathematical education isn't very good (on the level of Calculus 101). I'm not afraid of math, but so far all the books I could find are either about pure application, with barely any explanations, or they start with a lot of assumptions about my knowledge and introduce reams of unfamiliar notation.

I want a deeper understanding of the basic concepts. Like, mean is an indicator of the central tendency of a sample. Intuitively, it makes sense. But why this particular formula of sum/n? You can apply all kinds of mathematical stuff to the sample. And it's even worse with variance...

Any ideas how to proceed?

I too spent a few years with a similar desire to understand probability and statistics at a deeper level, but we might have been stuck on different things. Here's an explanation:


Suppose you have 37 numbers. Purchase a massless ruler and 37 identical weights. For each of your numbers, find the number on the ruler and glue a weight there. You now have a massless ruler with 37 weights glued onto it.

Now try to balance the ruler sideways on a spike sticking out of the ground. The mean of your numbers will be the point on the ruler where it balances.

Now spin the ruler on the spike. It's easy to speed up or slow down the spinning ruler if the weights are close together, but more force is required if the weights are far apart. The variance of your numbers is proportional to the amount the ruler resists changes to its angular velocity -- how hard you have to twist the ruler to make it spin, or to make it stop spinning.


"I'd like to understand this more deeply" is a thought that occurs to people at many levels of study, so this explanation could be too high or low. Where did my comment hit?

8IlyaShpitser
Moments of mass in physics is a good intro to moments in stats for people who like to visualize or "feel out" concepts concretely. Good post!
6solipsist
A different level explanation, which may or may not be helpful: Read up on affine space, convex combinations, and maybe this article about torsors. If you are frustrated with hand waving in calculus, read a Real Analysis textbook. The magic words which explain how the heck you can have a probability distributions over real numbers is measure theory).
1Douglas_Knight
How does that answer the question? It's true that the center of gravity is a mean, but the moment of inertia is not a variance. It's one thing to say something is "proportional to a variance" to mean that the constant is 2 or pi, but when the constant is the number of points, I think it's missing the statistical point. But the bigger problem is that these are not statistical examples! Means and sums of squares occur many places, but why are they are a good choice for the central tendency and the tendency to be central? Are you suggesting that we think of a random variable as a physical rod? Why? Does trying to spin it have any probabilistic or statistical meaning?
4solipsist
I wasn't aiming to answer Locaha's question as much as figure out what question to answer. The range of math knowledge here is high, and I don't know where Locaha stands. I mean, That could be a basic question about the meaning of averages -- the sort of knowledge I internalized so deeply that I have trouble forming it into words. But maybe Locaha's asking a question like: That's a less philosophical question. So if Locaha says "means are like the centers of mass! I never understood that intuition until now!", I'll have a different follow up than if Locaha says "Yes, captain obvious, of course means are like centers of mass. I'm asking about XYZ".
0spxtr
Mean and variance are closely related to center of mass and moment of inertia. This is good intuition to have, and it's statistical. The only difference is that the first two are moments of a probability distribution, and the second two are moments of a mass distribution.
-3Douglas_Knight
Using the word "distribution" doesn't make it statistical.
0[anonymous]
Telegraph to a younger me: If you are frustrated with explanations in calculus, read a Real Analysis textbook. And the magic words that explain how the heck you can have probability distributions over real numbers is measure theory.

When you have thousands of different pieces of data, to grasp it mentally, you need to replace them with some simplification. For example, instead of a thousand different weights you could imagine a thousand identical weights, such that the new set is somehow the same as the original set; and then you would focus on the individual weight from the new set.

What precisely does "somehow the same as the original set" mean? Well, it depends on what did the numbers from the original set do; how exactly they join together.

For example, if we speak about weights, the natural way of "joining together" is to add their weight. Thus the new set of the identical weights is equivalent to the original set if the sum of the new set is the same as sum of the old set. The sum of the new set = number of pieces × weight of one piece. Therefore the weight of the piece in the new set is the sum of the pieces in the original set divided by their number; the "sum/n".

Specifically, if addition is the natural thing to do, the set 3, 4, 8 is equivalent to 5, 5, 5, because 3 + 4 + 8 = 5 + 5 + 5. Saying that "5 is the mean of the original set" means "the original set b... (read more)

6Qiaochu_Yuan
I don't think that's really what means are. That intuition might fit the median better. One reason means are nice is that they have really nice properties, e.g. they're linear under addition of random variables. That makes them particularly easy to compute with and/or prove theorems about. Another reason means are nice is related to betting and the interpretation of a mean as an expected value; the theorem justifying this interpretation is the law of large numbers. Nevertheless in many situations the mean of a random variable is a very bad description of it (e.g. mean income is a terrible description of the income distribution and median would be much more appropriate). Edit: On the other hand, here's one very undesirable property of means: they're not "covariant under increasing changes of coordinates," which on the other hand is true of medians. What I mean is the following: suppose you decide to compute the mean population of all cities in the US, but later decide this is a bad idea because there are some really big cities. If you suspect that city populations grow multiplicatively rather than additively (e.g. the presence of good thing X causes a city to be 1.2x bigger than it otherwise would, as opposed to 200 people bigger), you might decide that instead of looking at population you should look at log population. But the mean of log population is not the log of mean population! On the other hand, because log is an increasing function, the median of log population is still the log of median population. So taking medians is in some sense insensitive to these sorts of decisions, which is nice.
6Ben Pace
I asked a similar question a while back, and I was directed to this book, which I found to be incredibly useful. It is written at an elementary level, has minimal little maths, yet is still technical, and brings across so many central ideas in very clear, Bayesian, terms. It is also on Lukeprog's CSA book recommendations for 'Become Smart Quickly'. Note: this is the only probability textbook I have read. I've glanced through the openings of others, and they've tended to be above my level. I am sixteen.
5pragmatist
As a first step, I suggest Dennis Lindley's Understanding Uncertainty. It's written for the layperson, so there's not much in the way of mathematical detail, but it is very good for clarifying the basic concepts, and covers some surprisingly sophisticated topics. ETA: Ah, I didn't notice that Benito had already recommended this book. Well, consider this a second opinion then.
5buybuydandavis
Read Edwin Jaynes. The problem with most Probability and Statistics courses is the axiomatic approach. Purely formalism. Here are the rules - you can play by them if you want to. Jaynes was such a revelation for me, because he starts with something you want, not arbitrary rules and conventions. He builds probability theory on basic desiredata of reason that you that make sense. He had reasons for my "whys?". Also, standard statistics classes always seemed a bit perverse to me - logically backward. They always just felt wrong. Jaynes approach replaced that tortured backward thinking with clear, straight lines going forward. You're always asking the same basic question "What is the probability of A given that I know B?" And he also had the best notation. Even if I'm not going to do any math, I'll often formulate a problem using his notation to clarify my thinking.
8Locaha
I think this is a most awesome mistype of desiderata.
3Manfred
Here, have a book! http://www-biba.inrialpes.fr/Jaynes/prob.html
8Locaha
Actually, I started reading that one and found it too hard.
0edanm
IS this a good book to start with? I know it's the standard "Bayes" intro around here, but is it good for someone with, let's say, zero formal probability/statistics training?
5Kaj_Sotala
I was under the impression that the "this is definitely not a book for beginners" was the standard consensus here: I seem to recall seeing some heavily-upvoted comments saying that you should be approximately at the level of a math/stats graduate student before reading it. I couldn't find them with a quick search, but here's one comment that explicitly recommends another book over it.
0A1987dM
I think it's even better if you're not familiar with frequentist statistics because you won't have to unlearn it first, but I know many people here disagree.
0buybuydandavis
I suppose it's better that to never have suffered through frequentist statistics first, but I think you appreciate the right way a lot more after you've had to suffer through the wrong way for a while.
0A1987dM
Well, Jaynes does point out how bad frequentism is as often as he can get away with. I guess the main thing you're missing out if you weren't previously familiar with it is knowing whether he's attacking a strawman.
0jsteinhardt
I agree, that's why I'm glad I learned Bayes first. Makes you appreciate the good stuff more.
2A1987dM
Did you misread the comment you're replying to, are you sarcastic, or am I missing something?
2A1987dM
* The mean of the sum of two random variables is the sum of the means (ditto with the variances); there's no similarly simple formula for the median. (See ChristianKl's comment for why you'd care about the sum.) * The mean if the value of x that minimizes SUM_i (x - x_i)^2; if you have to approximate all elements in your sample with the same value and the cost of an imperfect approximation is the square distance from the exact value (and any smooth function looks like the square when you're sufficiently close to the minimum), then you should use the mean. * The mean and variance are jointly sufficient statistics for the normal distribution * Possibly something else which doesn't come to my mind at the moment.
0A1987dM
(Of course, all this means that if you're more likely to multiply things together than add them, the badness of an approximation depends on the ratio between it and the true value rather than the difference, and things are distributed log-normally, you should use the geometric mean instead. Or just take the log of everything.)
0Lumifer
This isn't at introductory level, but try exploring the ideas around Fisher information -- it basically ties together information theory and some important statistical concepts.
0othercriteria
Fisher Information is hugely important in that it lets you go from just treating a family of distributions as a collection of things to treating them as a space with its own meaningful geometry. The wikipedia page doesn't really convey it but this write-up by Roger Grosse does. This has been known for decades but the inferential distance to what folks like Amari and Barndorff-Nielsen write is vast.
0maia
Attending a CFAR workshop and session on Bayes (the 'advanced' session) helped me understand a lot of things in an intuitive way. Reading some online stuff to get intuitions about how Bayes' theorem and probability mass work was helpful too. I took an advanced stats course right after doing these things, and ended up learning all the math correctly, and it solidified my intuitions in a really nice way. (Other students didn't seem to have as good a time without those intuitions.) So that might be a good order to do things in. Some multidimensional calc might be helpful, but other than that, I think you don't need too much other math to support learning more probability and stats.
0Stefan_Schubert
Not really - but I do agree that it's absolutely vital to understand the basic concepts or terms. I think that's a major reason why people fail to learn - they just don't really grasp the most vital concepts. That's especially true of fields with lots of technical terms. If you don't understand the terms you'll struggle to follow even basic lines of reasoning. For this reason I sometimes provide students with a list of central terms, together with comprehensive explanations of what they mean, when I teach.
0ThrustVectoring
I don't have a good resource for you - I've had too much math education to pin down exactly where I picked up this kind of logic. I'd recommend set theory in general for getting an understanding of how math works and how to talk and read precisely in mathematics. For your specific question about the mean, it's the only number such that the sum of all (samples - mean) equals zero. Go ahead and play with the algebra to show it to yourself. What it means is that if you go off of the mean, you're going to be more positive of the numbers in the sample than you are negative, or more negative than positive.
0Locaha
Can you recommend a place to start learning about set theory?
0ThrustVectoring
http://intelligence.org/courses/ has information on set theory. I also enjoyed reading Bertrand Russell's "Principia Mathematica", but haven't evaluated it as a source for learning set theory.

A few years back, the Amanda Knox murder case was extensively discussed on LW.

Today, Amanda Knox has been convicted again.

Did someone here ask about the name of a fraud where the fraudster makes a number of true predictions for free, then says "no more predictions, I'm selling my system."? There's no system, instead the fraudster divided the potential victims into groups, and each group got different predictions. Eventually, a few people have the impression of an unbroken accurate series.

Anyway, the scam is called The Inverted Pyramid, and the place I'd seen it described was in the thoroughly charming "Adam Had Three Brothers. by R.A. Lafferty.

Edited to add: It... (read more)

People often ask why MIRI researchers think decision theory is relevant for AGI safety. I, too, often wonder myself whether it's as likely to be relevant as, say, program synthesis. But the basic argument for the relevance of decision theory was explained succinctly in Levitt (1999):

If robots are to put to more general uses, they will need to operate without human intervention, outdoors, on roads and in normal industrial and residential environments where unpredictable physical and visual events routinely occur. It will not be practical, or even safe, t

... (read more)

A year ago, I was asked to follow up on my post about the January 2013 CFAR workshop in a year. The time to write that post is fast approaching. Are there any issues / questions that people would be particularly interested in seeing this post address / answer?

2pewpewlasergun
I'd like to know how many techniques you were taught at the meetup you still use regularly. Also which has had the largest effect on your life.

Somewhere I saw the claim that in choosing sperm donors the biggest factor turns out to be how cute the baby pictures are, but at this point it's just a cached thought. Looking now I'm not able to substantiate it. Does anyone know where I might have seen this claim?

Does anyone else experience the feeling of alienation? And does anyone have a good strategy for dealing with it?

8Kawoomba
Yes, although it would help if you could be a bit more specific, the term is somewhat overloaded. As for the strategy, depends. Find a better community (than the one you feel alienated from) in the sense of better matching values? We both seem to feel quite at home in this one (for me, if not for the suffocating supremacy of EA).
9Daniel_Burfoot
I meant alienated from society at large, not from LW, although the influence of society at large obviously affects discussion on LW. One aspect of my feeling is that I increasingly suspect that the fundamental reason people believe things in the political realm is that they feel a powerful psychological need to justify hatred. The naive view of political psychology is that people form ideological beliefs out of their experience and perceptions of the world, and those beliefs suggest that a certain category of people is harming the world, and so therefore they are justified in feeling hatred against that category of people. But my new view is that causality flows in the opposite direction: people feel hatred as a primal psychological urge, and so their conscious forebrain is forced to concoct an ideology that justifies the hatred while still allowing the individual to maintain a positive pro-social self-image. This theory is partially testable, because it posits that a basic prerequisite of an ideology is that it identifies an out-group and justifies hatred against that out-group.
8fubarobfusco
There is a quote commonly mis-attributed to August Bebel and indeed to Marx: "Antisemitismus ist der Sozialismus des dummen Kerls." ("Antisemitism is the socialism of the stupid guy", or perhaps colloquially, "Antisemitism is a dumb-ass version of socialism") That is to say, politically naïve people were attracted to antisemitism because it offered them someone to blame for the problems they faced under capitalism, which — to the quoted speaker's view, anyway — would be better remedied by changing the political-economic structure. Jay Smooth recently put out a video, "Moving the Race Conversation Forward", discussing recent research to the effect that mainstream-media discussions of racial issues tend to get bogged down in talking about whether an individual did or said something racist, as opposed to whether institutions and social structures produce racially biased outcomes. There are probably other sources for similar ideas from around the political spectra. (I'll cheerfully admit that the above two sources are rather lefter than I am, and I just couldn't be arsed to find two rightish ones to fit the politesse of balance.) People do often look for individuals or out-groups to blame for problems caused by economic conditions, social structures, institutions, and so on. The individuals blamed may have precious little to do with the actual problems. That said, if someone's looking to place blame for a problem, that does suggest the problem is real. It's not that they're inventing the problem in order to have something to pin on an out-group. (It also doesn't mean that a particular structural claim, Marxist or whatever, is correct on what that problem really is — just that the problem is not itself confabulated.)
3Richard_Kennaway
Does that make socialism the anti-semitism of the smart? Or perhaps of the ambitious -- they're attracted to it because it gives them an enemy big enough to justify taking over everything?
3NancyLebovitz
I've seen it phrased as "Anti-semitism is the socialism of fools".
0Daniel_Burfoot
Sure, obviously there are real problems in the world. Your examples seem to support my thesis that people believe in ideologies not because those ideologies are capable of solving the problems, but because the ideologies justify their feelings of hatred.
3fubarobfusco
I suppose I see it as more a case of biased search: people have actual problems, and look for explanations and solutions to those problems, but have a bias towards explanations that have to do with blaming someone. The closer someone studies the actual problems, though, the less credibility blame-based explanations have.
3Viliam_Bur
The part where the emotional needs come first, and the ideological belief comes later as a way of expressing and justifying them, that feels credible. I just don't think that everyone starts from the position of hatred (or, in the naive view, not everyone ends with hatred). There are other emotions, too. But maybe the people motivated by hatred make a large part of the most mindkilled crowd. Because other emotions can be expressed legitimately also outside of the politics.
2maia
Do you have an in-person community that you feel close to? What I'm trying to get at is, does it bother you specifically that you are alienated from "society at large," or do you feel alienated in general?
1NancyLebovitz
Tentatively: Look for what "and therefore" you've got associated with the feeling. Possibilities that come to my mind-- and therefore people are frightening, or and therefore I should be angry at them all the time, or and therefore I should just hide, or and therefore I shouldn't be seeing this. In any case, if you've got an "and therefore" and you make it conscious, you might be able to think better about the feeling.
7Lumifer
But of course. Accept that you're not average and not even typical.
4ChristianKl
Feeling usually become a problem when you resist them. My general approach with feelings: 1. Find someone towards which you can express the content behind the feeling. This works best in person. Online communication isn't good for resolving feelings. Speak openly about whatever comes to mind. 2. Track the feeling down in your body. Be aware where it happens to be. Then release it.
3memoridem
I think this feeling arises from social norms feeling unnatural to you. This feeling should be expected if your interests are relevant to this site, since people are not trying to be rational by default. The difference between a pathetic misfit and and an admirable eccentric is their level of awesomeness. If you become good enough at anything relevant to other people, you don't have to live through their social expectations. Conform to the norms or rise above them. Note that I think most social norms are nice to have, but this doesn't mean there aren't enough of the kind that make me feel alienated. It could be that the feeling of alienation is a necessary side effect of some beneficial cognitive change, in which case I'd try to cherish the feeling. I've found that rising to a leadership position diminishes the feeling significantly, however.
1MathiasZaman
I think that feeling is more common than you might think. Especially if you deviate enough from the societal norm (which Less Wrong generally does). My general strategy for dealing with is social interaction with people who'll probably understand. Just talk it over with them. It's best if you do this with people you care about. It doesn't have to be in person, if you've got someone relevant on Skype, that works as well.
4Daniel_Burfoot
Hmm, this is probably good advice. Part of my problem is that my entire family is made up of people who are both 1) Passionate advocates of an American political tribe and 2) Not very sophisticated philosophically.
4MathiasZaman
A common condition with geeks in general and aspiring rationalists in particular, I'd say. I've recently been expanding my network of like-minded people both by going to the local meetups and also by being invited in a Skype group for tumblr rationalists. I know that a feeling of alienation isn't conductive to meeting new people, so I'm not sure I can offer other advice. Contact some friends who might be open to new ideas? I'd offer to help myself, but I'm not sure if I'm the right person to talk to. (In any case, I've PM'd my Skype name if you do need a complete stranger to talk to.)
[-]banx80

Is it always correct to choose that action with the highest expected utility?

Suppose I have a choice between action A, which grants -100 utilons with 99.9% chance and +1000000 utilons with 0.1% chance, or action B which grants +1 utilon with 100% chance. A has an expected utility of +900.1 utilons, while B has an expected utility of +1 utilon. This decision will be available to me only once, and all future decision will involve utility changes on the order of a few utilons.

Intuitively, it seems like action A is too risky. I'll almost certainly end up with ... (read more)

I think the non-intuitive nature of the A choice is because we naturally think of utilons as "things". For any valuable thing (money, moments of pleasure, whatever) anybody who is minimally risk adverse would choose B. But utllons are not things, they are abstractions defined by one's preferences. So that A is the rational choice is a tautology, in the standard versions of utility theory.

It may help to think it the other way around, starting from the actual preference. You would choose a 99.9% chance of losing ten cents and 0.1% chance of winning 10000 dollars over winning one cent with certainty, right? So then perhaps, as long as we don't think of other bets and outcomes, we can map winning 1 cent to +1 utilon, losing 10 cents to -100 utilons and