(The Exercise Prize series of posts is the Center for Applied Rationality asking for help inventing exercises that can teach cognitive skills.  The difficulty is coming up with exercises interesting enough, with a high enough hedonic return, that people actually do them and remember them; this often involves standing up and performing actions, or interacting with other people, not just working alone with an exercise booklet and a pencil.  We offer prizes of $50 for any suggestion we decide to test, and $500 for any suggestion we decide to adopt.  This prize also extends to LW meetup activities and good ideas for verifying that a skill has been acquired.  See here for details.)


Exercise Prize:  Be Specific

During YCombinator's Startup School 2011, Paul Graham and Harj Tagger did "office hours" onstage.  One pair of entrepreneurs were doing a matchmaking (dating) startup, and Paul and Harj were trying to figure out what their startup did, exactly - for example, what their startup could do that the existing low-tech solution couldn't.  (Video.)

Harj:  Low-tech like, you know, just like word of mouth, telling someone "hey, you should like, meet up with my friend" or "we're getting drinks, why don't you come along?" Like, what can the software do that's specifically better than that?

Entrepreneur:  I think that our software specifically is providing the better connections for people, um...

Paul: Providing the better connections for people...?

Entrepreneur:  I mean, one way you can think about it, I don't know if this is the right answer, but... there's a lot of things that are happening in real life that they're trying to mimic online, maybe that's not the correct way to...  Look at it like this: to give them an online tool to also do this, like they're already doing in real life, maybe they could reach, uh expand their reach through the online website.

This had been happening with most of the startups Paul and Harj were interrogating - they just could not seem to provide a customer use-case - and I couldn't stand it any more; which is why at this point I whispered audibly enough for a few nearby people to hear, "Be specific!  Be specific!"

A moment later, on stage:

Paul:  Hm.  Not very specific.

I got some strange looks from the people sitting next to me.

I hope this provides some background for my guess that around half of Paul Graham's advantage is based on years of incubator experience, and the other half is unusual rationality skills of the sort that the Center for Modern Rationality is trying to figure out how to teach.  Obviously this is only a very rough conjecture.  But you can see the basis for the hope that - after a fair amount more work - we'll be able to offer a 2-day course for YCombinator entrepreneurs that eliminates 50% of the overhead from their conversations with Paul Graham.

(Also, note how this post starts off with a specific example - an instance of the concrete-abstract writing pattern in which you state the example first and the generalization afterward.  This is one of the most common bits of nonfiction writing advice I dispense:  "Open with the concrete example, not the abstract explanation!")

Theoretical background:

S. I. Hayakawa once gave this illustration of the "ladder of abstraction", and in particular, the difference between going up or down:

"What is meant by the word red?"
"It's a color."
"What's a color?"
"Why, it's a quality things have."
"What's a quality?"

vs.

"What is meant by the word red?"
"Well, the next time you see some cars stopped at an intersection, look at the traffic light facing them.  Also, you might go to the fire department and see how their trucks are painted."

"Red is a color" is moving up the ladder; "color" is a supercategory of red.  All things which are red, have colors; but not all things which have colors, are red.  And similarly, if you look at a specific firetruck, that firetruck is a red thing, but there are also many other red things which are not that firetruck.

What is true of one apple may not be true of another apple; suppose apple1 weighs 100 grams and is slightly green in some places, and apple2 weighs 200 grams and is entirely dark-red.  You can say more truths about apple2, like "apple2 is dark red", then you can say that is true of all apples.  (For more on this point see The Virtue of Narrowness.)

Thus, it may be easier to mentally picture "a firetruck" than "something red" - "firetruck" describes a narrower section of Thingspace, so you're less likely to get lost along the way.

S. I. Hayakawa called this the ladder of abstraction.  I'm not sure if understanding the following section will really help with the skill of Being Specific, or help anyone construct exercises for the skill of being specific.  But a better theoretical understanding does sometimes prove useful.  So I will now digress to explain that abstraction isn't really a ladder, but a lattice.

Let's illustrate this using a classic example from the field of machine learning.  Suppose that Days have three properties:

  • Weather: {Sunny, Cloudy, Rainy}
  • Temperature: {Cool, Hot}
  • Timing: {Weekday, Weekend}

And suppose that we've been given some examples of Days on which it was good, or alternatively bad, to play tennis.  For example, the Day {Sunny, Cool, Weekend} was good for playing tennis, but the day {Rainy, Hot, Weekday} was bad for playing tennis.  A classic task in machine learning is to induct, from a set of pre-classified examples like these, a rule describing when it is good to play tennis.

Any proposed rule which can classify all days as good or bad is a concept, in the lingo of machine learning.  "Sunny Days" is a concept; likewise "Sunny Cool Days", and "Days which are either Cool or Sunny".  Each of these is a concept which classifies all 12 possible days either positively or negatively - instances or non-instances of the concept.

There are 212 possible concepts over the 12 possible Days.  Why so many?  Because - for example - there's a concept which only includes the two Days {Sunny+Cool+Weekday} and {Cloudy+Cool+Weekend}}, but classifies all other Days as noninstances.  This is a way of classifying all Days into instances or noninstances, hence a possible concept.  It's not a compact concept, but it's a concept.  Each Day can be classified either positively or negatively - one binary decision per Day - so 212 possible concepts.  (That's why induction is a difficult problem in machine learning.)

The concept "Sunny" is a superconcept of "Sunny and Cool"; it lies above it in the lattice of abstraction, since all days which are "Sunny and Cool" are "Sunny".  "Sunny or Hot" is a supercategory of "Sunny".  "Weekend" is neither a superconcept nor a subconcept of "Sunny".

Concepts form a directed lattice from most general to most specific, with "all Days" at the top (every Day classified as an instance) and "no Days" at the bottom (the concept which classifies every Day as a noninstance).

If you now go back to the problem of telling someone what "red" means, when you say "red is a color", then, even if the listener does happen to know what "color" means, you're still moving upward in the lattice of abstraction.  When you said "color", you were talking about a concept that included all red things, but also many other things that were not red.

"Our software is providing the better connections for people" - the entrepreneur who said that might have had something specific in mind, or they might have just been bluffing or succumbing to wishful thinking.  But they described it using an abstract statement so broad that it included Facebook, or Western Union back when they were sending telegrams.  They might - though this is somewhat optimistic - they might have known themselves what they had in mind; they didn't think of Facebook; so they didn't realize how many other possibilities fit their words.  This is a classic manifestation of the Illusion of Transparency, and it's why we have to keep telling people to navigate the lattice downward.

The skill of Being Specific is the skill of understanding how to navigate the lattice of abstraction.  You can see why this would be a key element of cognition on a par with Bayes's Theorem or consequentialism.

And this is true in practice as well as theory.  When I'm talking to anyone outside the local LW community, I find that a very large amount of my conversation involves repeatedly asking them to be more specific - and if you think that's just me being annoying, watch Paul Graham in the video.


A closely related skill is concreteness, which has to do with nearness-to-sensory-experience or actionability.

According to David Allen's "Getting Things Done", for your brain to stop thinking about an unfinished task, you must (1) know and trust that an external system will remind you to perform that task when it is time to perform it, and (2) have chosen the next action taken at a sufficiently concrete level that your brain is no longer trying to plan it out in the background.  "Contact Luke about dispersing prize awards" is not a sufficiently concrete to-do; it leaves open the question of whether to phone or email, and what exactly to say.  "Read through the comments, gather the LessWrong usernames of everyone who made a suggestion we tried or adopted, and email the list to Luke" is an action item I know how to perform straightforwardly, without my brain trying to plan it in the background.  When you have a trustworthy external system to remind you of what to do, at the time you need to do it - so that the back of your mind isn't worrying about remembering to check the to-do list - and all to-do items have been concretized to the point of being executable without further background planning - then you have, in GTD parlance, "gotten to zero", a state of pure mental blissfulness in which your brain is not worrying about anything except what you're doing right now.

Similarly, for a statement like "Wulky Wilkinsen is a post-utopian" or "Earth gravity pulls at 9.8 meters per second squared" to be falsifiable, it must be concretized - rendered near-to-experience - to a sufficient degree that you can potentially see something and say "Oh, guess the hypothesis was wrong"; you must be able to have an experience which the concretized statement constrains, and which falsifies the theory if the experience is out-of-bounds.

Theoretically:  If you imagine the universe as a huge directed graph of causes and effects - the Great Web of Causality - then "concreteness" is being near enough in the Web to either your sensory inputs or motor outputs that you can directly see the prediction unfold, or directly implement the plan, without much further thought.

"Be Specific" and "Be Concrete" could easily end up being the same unit - they're closely related - and we're happy to entertain exercises for Being Concrete, as well as Being Specific.  Visualizing what your customer literally sees or does after navigating to your site, would've been a good first step toward being able to answer many of Paul Graham's questions.


A possible success criterion:

One question that we spent a lot of time discussing at CMR, was translating our sense of "specific enough" or "concrete enough" into a describable criterion.  (Instead of just a wordless intuition for when something is "too abstract".)

There was an exchange in Paul Graham's office hours that went like this, while interviewing a startup that did metrics - analyzing pageviews, roughly - and the entrepreneur was having great trouble describing what they did that MixPanel didn't.  It went on for a while.  It was painful to watch.

Paul:  I don't get what the difference is.  I still don't get what the difference is.  What's the difference between you and MixPanel?

Entrepreneur:  The difference is - when you have to supplement - they're a view company and we're a platform.  That's what it comes down to.  They're like a view, a reporting company.  If you need something they don't have, a feature - 

Harj:  So what's an example of somewhere you'd use your thing over MixPanel?  Can you give a use-case?

Entrepreneur:  Yeah, I mean, we had revenue on day zero. There's a good reason for um... it's a start up, it's a series A company in the daily deals space.  One we've signed a social game company to -

Harj:  And why do they prefer your thing?

Paul:  That wasn't what Harj was asking.

The problem (from the perspective of our present discussion) is that the Entrepreneur did not understand that Paul and Harj were repeatedly asking him to move downward on the ladder of abstraction.  When the Entrepreneur said "We had revenue on day zero", he was trying to offer confirmation of the abstract statement "We can do things MixPanel can't", but Paul and Harj still had no idea what his startup actually did.[1]

A quick bit of theoretical background:  There's an important difference, in the field of mathematical logic, between models and axioms.  An axiom is something like "All kittens are cute", i.e. "All x: kitten(x)->cute(x)".  A model is a particular universe of objects that includes {Obj #19834, kitten: T, cute: T, color: grey} and {Obj #19835, kitten: F, cute: F, color: striped}, and so on.

Correspondingly, in logical inference, there's a distinction between model-checking and deduction.  Suppose you want to know whether it's true that all positive integers less than 5, when multiplied by 7, are less than 50.  If you prove the general truth that all integers less than 5, times 7, are less than 35, by manipulating the axioms of multiplication and inequality, that's deduction.  If you notice that the only positive integers less than 5 are just {1, 2, 3, 4} and enumerate their products {7, 14, 21, 28}, which are all less than 50, that's model-checking.

My hypothesis about what it means to be "specific enough" or "concrete enough" is that the picture painted is detailed enough to use in model-checking whatever points are being debated.  Paul and Harj don't want to trust you when you state the abstract generalization, "We're better than MixPanel".  They aren't even content with deducing support for this generalization from the further generalization, "We already have customers."  They want a picture of something you do that MixPanel doesn't, which is detailed enough that they can model-check whether you have a competitive advantage.

Not to mention that Paul Graham is probably thinking about a number of other questions:

  • How much would I pay for this product?
  • Is this startup exciting enough that I would tweet about using it?
  • How much resources will it take to develop these features further?

Paul Graham doesn't want you to say, "$50, yes, and twenty engineer-months".  He wants a sufficiently specific picture of (a customer using) your product that he can arrive at his own answers by model-checking.

If Paul Graham is reading this, he's welcome to contradict my interpretation of what was going on in that particular session - but it did seem like a very nice concrete illustration.

That's my guess for what often constitutes "specific enough" - though I'm not sure that's the only thing that ever determines specific-enoughness.

[1]:  The strange part was, near the end of that session, it started to look like this might be an interesting startup; that the Entrepreneur wasn't just bluffing.  Their actual use-case was to let customers easily roll their own code to measure, e.g., the page-viewing behavior of only customers who'd bought more than $200 worth of stuff, which allegedly MixPanel wouldn't let you do.  Which would've been a perfectly good answer if the Entrepreneur had given it at the start of the session, instead of the whole session being about Paul and Harj trying to get at that information.


Five-second-level skill:

The 5SL skill for this problem requires:

  • Trigger:  Recognizing when your words or thoughts are too abstract.
  • Action:  Moving downward in the abstraction lattice, or moving nearer to sense input or motor output; being able to render your thoughts more specific or more concrete.

Both of these are targetable for exercises.


Pain points & Pluses:

• You want Paul Graham to believe your startup is better than MixPanel.  So you say, "My startup is better than MixPanel" - just produce the pure abstract conclusion you want Paul Graham to arrive at.  You keep trying to convince Paul Graham of this statement, saying that you have customers or that you have venture capital, but never actually move downward to the level where Paul Graham could arrive at this conclusion by model-checking.

• You want to describe what your software does, so you say it makes connections between people.  You have something specific in mind, but the words coming out of your mouth are so general that - although you're not thinking of those other cases - they could apply equally well to Facebook or telegraph lines.  Paul Graham has no idea at all what you're trying to describe and is giving you blank looks.

• The worse version - and the reason why Paul Graham doesn't just trust you, even if he thinks you're honest - is the case where you yourself want to believe your startup is better than Facebook, but you can't think of any specific thing your startup does better than Facebook, so you think of other abstract generalizations that seem to support the conclusion, like "We have smarter people" or "We got more funding earlier."  Where fuzzy thinking is motivated, overly abstract thinking is motivated.

• Abstract words can also avoid emotion.  George Orwell:  "Defenceless villages are bombarded from the air, the inhabitants driven out into the countryside, the cattle machine-gunned, the huts set on fire with incendiary bullets: this is called pacification."  Or contrast "Humanity is awful, it'd be better for the planet if we all died" to "Everyone including my little sister is awful, we'd be better off if everyone died including her."  To feel sympathy, we need enough concrete detail that our emotions can model-check the picture and be activated.

• Cognitive-behavioral therapy is the big experimentally supported version of therapy, for anyone not aware of this, bearing very little resemblance to anything Freudian.  CBT talks about using requests for specific details to interrupt thoughts looping around vague but affectively laden centers, like "I am a good husband", "I am a bad husband", or "my roommate is a slob".  How are you a good husband?  How are you a bad husband?  Which specific feature of your roommate are you objecting to?  Taboo the emotionally valent word at the center, like "slob", and replace it with something that's specific enough to be testable, or concrete enough to be acted upon.

•• Contrast also "It bothers me when you leave soda cans on the table" vs. "You're such a slob, stop being such a slob."  Or contrast:  "I'm upset" -> "I'm upset because I think the other person is looking down on me" -> "I'm upset because the person's tone of voice sounds like people who looked down on me in high school".  This is related to the incredibly important skill, search for the historical causes of your thoughts, rather than their justifications.

• Focusing on the specific details of a concrete example, instead of repeating a word or arguing about a category, can interrupt Sneaking in Connotations and Arguing By Definition.

• All the failures of concreteness warned against in the Mysterious Answers sequence, where you go on and on about how Wulky Wilkinsen is a post-utopian without ever once asking or imagining how the world ought to look, and what you yourself should experience, if that were true or alternatively false.

• Visualizing specific examples often improves quality of thought in general - we're often smarter when we're using both model-checking and deduction, visualizing a picture of what we're supposed to be reasoning about, constantly checking our deductive steps against some specific model those deductions are supposed to be true about.  Saith Richard Feynman:

I had a scheme, which I still use today when somebody is explaining something that I'm trying to understand: I keep making up examples. For instance, the mathematicians would come in with a terrific theorem, and they're all excited. As they're telling me the conditions of the theorem, I construct something which fits all the conditions. You know, you have a set (one ball) - disjoint (two halls). Then the balls turn colors, grow hairs, or whatever, in my head as they put more conditions on. Finally they state the theorem, which is some dumb thing about the ball which isn't true for my hairy green ball thing, so I say, "False!"

 If it's true, they get all excited, and I let them go on for a while. Then I point out my counterexample.

"Oh. We forgot to tell you that it's Class 2 Hausdorff homomorphic."

"Well, then," I say, "It's trivial! It's trivial!"

• Being specific helps notice and call bluffs, should you be mischievously inclined.

"Beware, demon!" he intoned hollowly.  "I am not without defenses."
"Oh yeah?  Name three."
-- Robert Asprin, Another Fine Myth

Wannabe executive:  "I will improve communications between employees and management."
Me:  "Can you give me a specific example of how you would do that?"


Known exercises for this skill:

In our previous Rationality Camps, Anna found that her attempt to teach a unit on "Being Specific" didn't seem to work.  Her central exercise was picking a category and asking people to name examples.

This isn't to say that the Camps were unsuccessful at teaching the skill.  Attendees picked it up, not from the explicit unit, but from all the instructors having to repeatedly ask the attendees to be more specific, and then having to ask them again, while being specific themselves, until the attendees picked up the rhythm by example and feedback.

Given our present teaching technology, this skill seems transmissible from master to apprentice, but not yet replicable by exercises.  That's why we're turning it over to you.

SotW: Be Specific
New Comment
295 comments, sorted by Click to highlight new comments since:
Some comments are truncated due to high volume. (⌘F to expand all)Change truncation settings

her attempt to teach a unit on "Being Specific" didn't seem to work.

How specifically did it not work?

(ETA: I should probably add I'm not being mischievous here; "doesn't work" is a trigger phrase for me, born out of extensive experience of dealing with useless bug reports. It systematically unpacks into at least two questions, "what behavior were you expecting" and "what did you get instead".)

An example of this that will be familiar to any programmer, and was taught to me in grade school, is "give orders to a malicious idiot." The teacher has the students write down the algorithm for a simple task, like "sharpen a pencil," with a wooden pencil and an old crank-operated sharpener as the props.

Typically, people begin with something like "stick the pencil into the sharpener, then turn the crank," which the teacher will do by ineffectually pushing the side of the pencil against the sharpener while turning the crank. The students revise to "stick the end of the pencil into the hole in the sharpener, then turn the crank," which the teacher will do by sticking the eraser into sharpener. (There are, if I remember correctly, four or five different features you can require the pencil-sharpening algorithm have, like which end of the pencil to stick into what part of the sharpener, which way to turn the crank, to hold the pencil still so it doesn't just spin with the crank or fall out if the sharpener is oriented poorly.)

(This will be familiar to programmers because going from the basic algorithm to code requires a level of detail that can't be faked.)

I was reminded of something similar by AspiringKnitter's post below. There is an event in Science Olympiad called Write It Do It. One person is given a constructed object made out of LEGO, K'Nex, or similar. They write a set of instructions for how to reproduce the object. These are then given to a teammate who hasn't seen the original object, who must use the instructions to reconstruct the original object. Seems fairly simple to adapt to a group setting - you could just split the group into two rooms and have them first write their own instructions and then try to follow the instructions of a partner in the other room.

This exercise and malicious idiot exercise differ in the "when" and "by whom". With a malicious idiot, your errors are pointed out immediately and by somebody else. When writing instructions, your errors don't come to light until your partner's object doesn't look like yours, and neither of you might notice until that point. It's important to notice a lack of specificity both in others (so they don't lead you astray) and in yourself (so you don't lead yourself astray), so it would probably be useful to do both kinds of exercises.

There's a lower-overhead version of the LEGO exercise involving pen and paper: person A draws a design on a piece of paper and hands it to person B, who writes instructions for how to reproduce that shape and hands them to person C, who follows them. Then compare A's output to C's.

Naturally, this can be done in parallel with N people, all of whom start out as As and end up as Cs.

Of course, this kind of depends on A not knowing what's coming, since otherwise A just draws a circle or something.

2thomblake
This game is particularly fun when chained; A draws, B describes, C draws, D describes, and so on. Then you see how the shape transformed over time.
4RobinZ
There's actually an online game called "Doodle or Die" for playing this. It being an online game, however, there are a disgustingly large number of players who break the chain (willfully or non).
9atucker
We've played this at meetups a few times. It hammered in the illusion of transparency pretty well. (Puppy Trampoline -> Drawing -> If you jump on a dog you make it stronger).
5RobinZ
I remember that! I think the biggest obstacle to clarity in the game is actually the rarity of artistic skill, not the vagueness of the written descriptions, though.
3thomblake
I've played a similar game in person - I think it was Telestrations. You get a word from a stack of cards, and try to draw that word. The next player guesses which word you were trying to draw, and the next player tries to draw that word (and so on). Fun party game.
0bentarm
Except that the aim of telephone pictionary is to produce hilariously incongruous lists of phrases and pictures, and the aim of this game is, well, the opposite. Erm... posted this in the wrong thread, then "retracted" it -didn't actually know what that button did. Oh well...
0thomblake
If you reload, you can delete a retracted comment.
0[anonymous]
retract
2fubarobfusco
This is the party game called "Eat Poop You Cat" (pronounced "I'pupiukat") or "Telephone Pictionary".
0bentarm
Except that the aim of telephone pictionary is to produce hilariously incongruous lists of phrases and pictures, and the aim of this game is, well, the opposite.

Once a year, an acquaintance of mine gets his first-year programming class to tell him how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Even more knobs. :)

4handoflixue
The best question I ever encountered during an interview for a Technical Support position was to describe either that or tying your shoes. It's a great test of whether a prospective employee will be able to actually communicate troubleshooting concepts to the caller on the other end of the line, since obviously they can't use anything but words to do so :)

I think this is a great idea! One addition I think would be useful is that (after a demo), have people get into small groups and take turns being the "malicious idiot" (instead of just the teacher playing this role). This will allow them to think of the issue from the OTHER side. (and be more kinetically interactive)

2CronoDAS
Darn it, this was the first thing I thought of, and now I can't get any credit for it! See also: How to cook scrambled eggs
2wedrifid
... Then the malicious idiot stabs you in the eye with the pencil. Oh, the malicious idiot was supposed to follow orders and only follow orders? Why didn't you say so?!
7Vaniver
Because I love setting other people up for jokes.
3Viliam_Bur
I guess the malicious idiot is not suppossed to be creative, but lazy. They should use the simplest possible explanation -- only the simplicity is not measured by common sense, but by something like Solomonoff prior.
3DSimon
No, it's maliciousness, but very specifically aimed maliciousness. They don't want to hurt you, they just want to demonstrate that you are bad at giving directions.
3Spurlock
I don't think this a good restriction. Consider the fact that Hanlon's Razor is even a thing: This suggests that people often mistake stupidity for malice. So given that in these examples, your opponent probably does secretly understand what you're communicating (most of us know deep down how to sharpen a pencil), it might be necessary to have malice/creativity play the part of inferential distance. Otherwise you may learn to anticipate an unrealistically rational audience, one which never comes in with incorrect preconceived ideas, or lacks the necessary technical vocabulary, or seems to practice selective hearing, etc. In short, original seeing is the exception, not the rule, so the opponent should be at least slightly hostile in his/her interpretations to account for this.

Idea One: Monday/Tuesday Game

On Monday, your proposition is true. On Tuesday, your proposition is false. Tell me a story about each of the days so I can see how they are different. Don't just list the differences (because you're already not doing that well). Start with "I wake up" so you start concrete and move on in that vein, naming the parts of your day that are identical as well as those that are different.

Idea Two: Sabotage Game

You're definitely right, but unfortunately there's a malevolent actor who wants to make you look a fool. And even more unfortunately, he's creative and has a lot of resources. What does he sabotage? What evidence does he counterfeit? (This way you're identifying the examples or the proofs by looking at them as structurally crucial.)

127chaos
I really like this and wish I'd seen it earlier. Good idea.

Idea: train the skill "ask for examples" instead, which seems easier to train, and bootstraps you into being more specific. I am not usually confused about my own thoughts, but I am often confused when others are trying to explain their ideas.

Example: explaining a startup idea to my friend today, I said "...and the viral strategy for this payments app could be loaning money to people". He was confused and asked for an example, so I said "let's say we are at a coffee shop. I have no cash, you have the payment app, and I want to borrow money for coffee. You tell me to download the app, so you can loan me the money. Then I can get my coffee, but to pay you back, I have to complete the signup process." -- here, I was incorrectly assuming my friend had all the same context I did with respect to viral strategies.

Exercise: after explaining the virtues of asking for examples, start to move onto another topic. A confederate in the audience yells "can you give an example?" Everyone giggles, the instructor says "I'm glad you asked!" and the exercise is explained: Students pair off and start telling stories to each other, intentionally leaving ... (read more)

A friend of mine makes these stickers:

At the risk of escalating the Meta War, I think "be specific" and "be concrete" are themselves too general and abstract to engender good exercises. They look more like "do algebra" than "factor a polynomial". Not that you wouldn't get some interesting responses if you said, "We need ideas for teaching how to do algebra," but most of them probably wouldn't make students better at factoring a polynomial-- analogously, I like the "teach me to sharpen a pencil" game, and it would make a fun and striking activity, but I'm not sure it would help students learn to explain their business plan better in an interview. If you want students to communicate judgements and opinions better, teach them to do that.

In this case, I would unpack "specific" into two parts: concrete and relevant. To make a statement more concrete, you talk about how qualities can be measured or observed ("Yellow is a color" becomes "Yellow is the color of a dandelion" or "yellow is the color of the emission spectrum of sodium"). To make it more relevant, you relate it to a goal or higher-level question ("These scissor... (read more)

Argh. I'm reminding myself that Retroactive Rewards Rage is a cognitive fallacy. Is there a formal name for it? I bet you could induce it in chimps.

Anyway,

Abstraction Telephone

Divide into at least 4 groups, of minimum size 1 and maximum size maybe 5. Each group gets a different short passage. They collaborate to translate the passage their choice of either "one rung up," making it all more abstract, or "one rung down," making it all more specific. Group N then passes their translated passage only, not the original, to Group N+1 modulo the number of groups. Then each group performs the same operation, then passes it to the next group in line. I think two iterations will be enough to get something entertainingly mangled, so then each group in turn performs the passage they've been handed for the audience. The remaining people may try to guess what the original passage was.

Example (2/3rds stolen from George Orwell):

Group 1 gets:

"I returned and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance hap... (read more)

6Eliezer Yudkowsky
We'll totally do retroactive awards for anything we try from Check Consequentialism.
0HonoreDB
Oh, thanks!

I think you should go with Vaniver's idea. (Edit: Vaniver now has multiple ideas up. I mean the one about giving orders to malicious idiots. Completely off-topic: that's also a useful way to explain tasks to people with Asperger's Syndrome or other neurological oddities that cause executive dysfunction.)

I also think this reminds me of something (fiction) writers talk about a lot: they've hit on the way people won't sympathize with "a billion people died/starved/were tortured/experienced dust specks in their eyes" but will sympathize with "Alice was mobbed by dust specks and blinded" and will sympathize even better if you give some specific details about how it felt. And then they go on to talk about how to make Alice someone the reader cares about and how to craft sentences and other stuff that's relevant to them but irrelevant here.

But maybe something like making up a character and talking someone through xyr experience using the product step by step, in the kind of detail a novelist would use to describe the climactic fight scene.

Another idea that occurred to me is some sort of exercise where two people would pair up. One would have to do a novel task or navig... (read more)

5Oscar_Cunningham
Upvoted for that last paragraph.
4erratio
Yeah, seconding the "blind obstacle course" exercise, although you don't usually need to make it more difficult by not letting the person giving instructions watch (mostly because it's difficult just to walk in a straight line without visual cues, let alone execute precise turns). It's a common leadership/working as a group game and people usually need to watch other attempts go wrong 3 or 4 times before hitting a useful level of specificity.
3dbaupp
(Summary: Orienteering with the navigation and movement separate. This exercise requires both people to be specific to not get lost, and it can be extended by adding in a race aspect (trying to be specific under pressure!).) The last paragraph made me think of "MoboGoGlobo", which is an orienteering event where there are two participants: one doing the navigation who guides the other via phone. (I'm not sure how familiar with orienteering many people are, so I'll give a quick intro) When participating in an orienteering event one normally has to visit a series of markers in a predefined order as quickly as possible (or not, if one isn't feeling like racing, entirely up to the participant). One has a detailed map (although, importantly, it rarely has street names) that indicates the location of these and the order to visit them in, e.g. the two maps here (the pink (or purple) triangle is the start location and the numbered circles are the markers). When competing, one uses all sorts of clues to make sure one is going in the right direction and one isn't lost (and to become unlost), like most obviously the shape of nearby buildings, the topography (e.g. a steep hill), a fork in a track or stream, or more subtly things, like a bend in a track or the position of a power line on the next hill. (Conventionally, one also has a compass, which one uses to orient oneself correctly.) In this exercise you need two people: one with the map ("navigator"), the other actually on the territory that corresponds to the map ("runner", this doesn't imply that one needs to run though): it requires the navigator to describe exactly where to go ("go past the building" < "go to the left of the building that has a round canopy outside"), and also for the runner to describe what they see so that the navigator can keep track ("There is a line of trees" < "A line of trees starts just to my left and goes directly away"). There are multiple levels of specificity too: the best teams will have
1Vaniver
I typically use a permalink to refer to comments that aren't upthread. (Thanks for the recommendation, by the way!)

Exercise - filing bug reports. Have attendees use software that sucks (that they provide, e.g. on their mobile device, or that you provide, e.g. over the Web), or recall occasions where they used software that sucked. Ask them to describe the problem they encountered in enough detail that someone else can reproduce it, or deduce something useful such as a workaround.

"It needs to be about 20% cooler."

I, for one, am thrilled to see Eliezer writing another Sequence. :)

Also, in my quest to make these all relatable to improv games:

More Specific (it's not a very good video, sorry), is a game in which two people act out a scene, with the audience (or moderator) occasionally demanding that they be "More Specific"

Example-

B: Good job finishing your paper on time!
C: Yeah, I had the hardest time finding my references...
Audience: More specific!
C: My kid thought that my reference books would be better with all the pages ripped out, and I couldn't find the pages with my quotes
etc

I'm thinking that I actually might have seen this game mentioned on LW before, but I didn't a quick search and didn't see it.


Spitball (not a vid) is a game in which "Players take a mundane object suggested by the audience and elaborately detail it", generally using "Yes, and..." technique.


An improv-y style warm-up game that I just thought up, upon which I bestow the name "Something". In this game, everyone gets in a circle. The starting person (or moderator) comes up with a sentence that has a lot of "somethings" and "things" in it. Each person makes it more and more specific.

Example-
1: Did you something the thing ... (read more)

Unrelated to the post, but I'm not sure where else to suggest rationality exercises. So I'd like to revive an idea I saw here a while back called 'What Did You See?' (I can't take any prize if it's selected because it's not mine). I think it would be a wonderful game for developing curiosity and noticing specifics. But above all its purpose is learning that you can learn, which I think even in the rationality community is an important lesson that helps to reignite the inquisitive spark.

At home there was a game that all the parents played with their children. It was called, What Did You See? Mara was about Dann’s age when she was first called into her father’s room one evening, where he sat in his big carved and coloured chair. He said to her, ‘And now we are going to play a game. What was the thing you liked best today?’

At first she chattered: ‘I played with my cousin . . . I was out with Shera in the garden . . . I made a stone house.’ And then he had said, ‘Tell me about the house.’ And she said, ‘I made a house of the stones that come from the river bed.’ And he said, ‘Now tell me about the stones.’ And she said, ‘They were mostly smooth stones, but some were sharp and had dif

... (read more)
0atorm
I realized that the movie was "It's a Wonderful Life" within the first paragraph. Consider adjusting your estimates of readers. Also, an imdb review that gave me the plot of a movie would not be a good review. It would be a synopsis. That review told me that the acting was good and the story heartwarming. I don't think that it is a good subject for criticism of specificity.
0Username
Are you replying to the right comment?
0atorm
No, no I'm not. A thousand pardons.

Exercise: incentivize both teacher and student participants in Vaniver's "malicious idiot" exercise. Give the student points when she is successfully more specific, and give the teacher points when he finds a new way to misinterpret the student instructions.

Example: how to brush your teeth?

S: hold your toothbrush

T: (picks up toothbrush with teeth) (1 point)

S : hold your toothbrush between your thumb and fingers of your right hand (1 point)

T: (makes a fist, puts toothbrush on outside of fingers) (1 point)

S: argh. Like this! (picks it up as example) (2 points for being concrete)

T: (mimics perfectly)

S: great, now... Brush your teeth. (laughter)

I could go on, but hopefully you get the point.

4Mass_Driver
I think this is the best exercise posted so far. Unlike the other exercises, it can be explained to ordinary middle schoolers in 90 seconds, it engages both visual and tactile senses, it is competitive, it is devoid of perverse incentives, and it will usually be fun to play and funny to watch.
5Armok_GoB
Not so, you're better of improving in small increments than doing the best you can immediately.
0Dues
That depends on the scoring system. If the judge grade exponentially for better answers, then small increments are a loosing choice.

Exercise - fetch something from the kitchen. This happens all the time at home and drives me crazy. "Get me the dentist's papers, they're in the drawer." What drawer, in what room, what do the papers look like, are they in some sort of container... Reproducing this in a residential training setting opens up interesting possibilities. For instance, while giving attendees a tour or taking them from place to place tell them (separately) to pay attention to a specific item ("this is your target for the exercise after lunch") in a non-central location. The next day, pair people up, have them describe the target to each other, fetch targets, debrief.

[-]Benquo100

Several comments mention guessing games. Here's my variant:

One "communicator", one or many askers.

The communicator starts by describing something in the most general terms they can think of.

Each round, the asker(s) can either ask a question, or guess. The question has to be about an attribute of the thing, not its name, and they can't say "Is it X?" or "What is it?". The communicator answers, vaguely if the question is vague, getting specific if they're backed into a corner.

When they guess, the game is over. If they guess wrong, they lose. Then you try to figure out what your next question should have been.

If they guess right, they win and get congratulated.

"It's a way of moving things from place to place."

"What kinds of things?"

"Oh, things you want moved."

"How big can these things get?"

"No more than six feet high, a couple feet wide, less than a foot long."

"Are they inert and durable?"

"No."

"Are they fragile?"

"Depends on your standards."

"Would they break if you dropped them from a foot?"

"No."

"From ten feet?"

"Possibly."

"... (read more)

0Incorrect
The answerer is being cooperative here though. This is how I would have answered: "It's a way of doing stuff to stuff" "What kinds of stuff?" "Stuff that's like some stuff but unlike other stuff" "How big is the stuff?" "Around the size of other stuff" "Is the stuff inert and durable?" "As much as that sort of stuff can be" ...
0Benquo
Yes, but sufficiently specific questions should be anle to corner any uncooperative answerer playing in good faith. You don't have to accept that answer to "how big," for example. You can ask, is the stuff organized into discrete items? If so, are they bigger than a cubic mile? If not, are they smaller than a cubic foot? And so on.
0faul_sname
Very strongly reminds me of this as well. I wonder what sort of exercise might combine the two.

Exercise: Stay in the entrepreneurship domain and channel PG. Pretty much everyone has startup ideas, right? Actually apply PG's algorithm to the participants' real startup ideas.

(I think his algorithm is something like: do I understand the core idea? Is it something people want? How do you know? Is it something people will pay for? How do you know? What are the obvious flaws? Why are you the team to do this? Why is now a good time for this? Is it working? How do you know? What insights/surprises?)

Example: I love Magic the Gathering and I want to have a place for people to talk about how awesome the decks are--

T: be specific!

A site to talk Magic strategy. (+1 conciseness)

T: how do you know people want this?

Well, people love magic and talk about it all the time.

T: I'm not convinced.

Well, I talked to a famous magic player (+1 specificity) and he told me this story about how he invented this deck back in the day on the starcity forums, and he couldn't have done it without the community [lincoln note: this is totally made up], so we want to enable that to happen more. (too general, but the teacher doesn't press yet, instead noting the obvious flaws for later discussion)

T: and people w... (read more)

Company mission statements are notoriously abstract and might make a good starting place. If someone didn't know anything about a company and they went and read the mission statement, they probably wouldn't have a much better idea of what the company actually did.

For example, if (stereotypical) Grandpa asked you what Google was and you replied, "they organize the world’s information and make it universally accessible and useful" you probably wouldn't do much to help him understand what Google is (despite that being one of the best mission stateme... (read more)

One way sub-skill of being specific is learning to focus on details, instead of big picture.

For example, if a manager is vague they focus on the big picture and tell their employee "You need to stop arriving late."
If a manager is specific, they focus on details and tell their employee: "In the past week, you have been more than 15 minutes late two times. If you are running more than 10 minutes late you have to call. If you are more than 15 minutes late 3 times in a month, you will get written up, etc."

I think a fun way to teach how to ... (read more)

Exercise - refining descriptions.

Get three or four people sitting together. Place a large group of different items (30-50 small cheap plastic toys of the sort readily available in bulk from Oriental Trading Company, for instance) in the center of the group.

The exercise is to narrow down to a single toy by adding one detail at a time to a description. The description begins with the word "thingy," "toy," or a similarly vague word. Players take turns adding a single detail to the description, repeating it each time. (A detail is usually a... (read more)

7atorm
A variation: Again, a large group of different items (I was thinking abstract images of colors and shapes, but toys is a good idea too) is visible to the group. One of the objects is selected and then each person writes a description that selects that object alone out of the set. The goal is to write the shortest description that can pick that particular object. Once everyone is done, answers are compared, and violations are sought: if one of the other objects fulfills all the requirements of someone's description, they are disqualified. Whoever has the shortest description that describes the chosen object and only the chosen object wins a point, and the game is repeated with another object.
2atorm
This adds a competitive/fun element (looking for violations in other descriptions), may widen ideas on how to describe something, and trains conciseness as well as specificity.
1dbaupp
(I like the idea, but I think the last few paragraphs could do with some editing: your meaning has been obscured :( )
0atorm
Good grief, what happened to my post? Thanks for the heads up.
0atorm
A second variation: Once again, a large group of different items is the set. Half the group leaves the room, and the other half selects one of the items. Each person left in the room writes the shortest description of the chosen item that selects it out of the group. The other members come back in and are each given one of the written descriptions and a stopwatch. They read the descriptions and then try to visually find the chosen item without giving obvious indications to the other searchers. Once a searcher thinks he knows which item is being described, he stops his stopwatch to indicate how long it took him. After every searcher believes they have found the correct item, the written descriptions and stopwatch times can be compared as above. This has the added bonus of providing information on what kind of descriptions are the most helpful in finding things.

Exercise: What Was That All About?

Players get samples of writing from various internet sources - randomly chosen movie reviews from IMDB, news stories from Huffington Post, blog posts from Wordpress, Wikipedia articles, etc.

Player A gets to block out 5% of the words in the sample. Player B then tries to guess the topic the sample discusses.

For example, here's a semi-randomly chosen IMDB review - the first one I grabbed off the site. It got 137 "helpful" votes out of 161 voters, so it's perceived as a good review. It's of a famous movie. I've bloc... (read more)

5atorm
I realized that the movie was "It's a Wonderful Life" within the first paragraph. Consider adjusting your estimates of readers. Also, an imdb review that gave me the plot of a movie would not be a good review. It would be a synopsis. That review told me that the acting was good and the story heartwarming. I don't think that it is a good subject for criticism of specificity.
4Mark_Eichenlaub
Thanks for letting me know you found it out so quickly. By specificity for the review, I didn't mean that it should summarize the plot. Instead, when some general statement is made, there should be some connection to the movie that supports it. Jimmy Stewart has boyish charm? When? What scenes? What about them? Contrast to Roger Ebert's review. An excerpt: This is a specific example supporting his statement at the beginning of the paragraph that, ""It's a Wonderful Life" is not just a heart-warming "message picture.""
1atorm
This clears up your point wonderfully.

Why is "be specific" a hard skill to teach?

I think it is because being specific is not really the problem, and by labeling it as such we force ourselves into a dead-end which does not contain a solution to the real problem. The real problem is achieving communication. By 'achieving communication', I mean that concepts in one mind are reproduced with good fidelity in another. By good fidelity, I mean that 90% (arbitrary threshold) of assertions based on my model will be confirmed as true by yours.

There are many different ways that the fidelity c... (read more)

1Vaniver
I suspect the Socratic method (the old one, not the bland one) fits under this heading- "put forth a proposition, and I'll demolish you with your own statements."
1thomblake
Sadly, "Communicate well" isn't quite as simple of a skill.

For moderately tech-savvy people who are not programmers: Write pseudocode to sort a list of numbers. Have a human, perhaps the moderator, execute the steps on a blackboard with a particular list. Repeat until you get the expected results. For extra credit, drill down on steps such as "exchange two numbers".

Ask for ways in which 2012 laws are better than 1912 laws. (Year is arbitrary.) Drill down on abstractions; for example, if "unions have more power" is given as an answer, ask for specific ways in which this is an improvement. For a... (read more)

Exercise: Interview (or "be Paul Graham")

Example: (participants A and B)
A: I am a gardener.
B: What is a gardener?
A: It's my job.
B: No, what does a gardener do?
A: I maintain gardens.
B: What is an example of a task that you have to do?
...

Description:

2 participants act in roles of the Interviewer and Interviewee. The Interviewer asks questions to be answered honestly, ideally that would tend towards abstract answers like "What do you do for a living?" and "What did you study in school?". The Interviewer repeatedly asks for mo... (read more)

4TheOtherDave
When I did more job interviews, I was fond of the question "What does the job you'd most want here look like, in terms of what you'd actually be doing on a typical day?"
3thomblake
Inspired by people's failure to grasp at the obvious solutions to Harry's problem after Chapter 80, I posted an obvious exercise in case everyone's failed to notice it.
0Luke_A_Somers
I posit that this is well more obvious than any other 'obvious' solutions to Harry's problem.
2thomblake
I'm not sure if that makes people more or less likely to notice it.
0Vaniver
The "it is my job" response is a bit hard to interpret. Is the interviewee supposed to be intentionally obtuse? The interviewer's motivation is easy to maintain, but the interviewee's motivation might become challenging if this is just a conversation with the goal of specificity and external topic control. If I know that my interlocutor is supposed to ask me questions to make me more and more specific, I might jump the gun, leading off with "I am a human employed in the care of plants selected for their decorative or nutritive value, and at present I care for carrots, beets, and daisies" rather than "I am a gardener."
[-][anonymous]70

An idea of an exercise, which actually involves some popular culture - which may make it more interesting for those involved. Agree on a set of books/movies/series/etc that can be used before starting, which participants are reasonably familiar with. Postulate a broad category of characters, e.g. "Good politicians". Brainstorm a list of characters who fit this category and put the list onto a piece of paper or a whiteboard. Take turns in trying to narrow down the list by making the category more specific and crossing some characters off until onl... (read more)

In psychology, the term "high-level construal" or "abstract construal" means thinking in supercategories (mammals), and the term "low-level construal" or "concrete construal" means thinking in subcategories (poodles). Being in a high level construal helps you focus on goals, and being in a low level construal helps you focus on methods and specifics, IIRC.

When testing construal effects, one way psychologists induce low-level construals is to ask an iterative set of "How" questions.

For example:
Subject- I wan... (read more)