This is an extension of a comment I made that I can't find and also a request for examples. It seems plausible that, when giving advice, many people optimize for deepness or punchiness of the advice rather than for actual practical value. There may be good reasons to do this - e.g. advice that sounds deep or punchy might be more likely to be listened to - but as a corollary, there could be valuable advice that people generally don't give because it doesn't sound deep or punchy. Let's call this boring advice

An example that's been discussed on LW several times is "make checklists." Checklists are great. We should totally make checklists. But "make checklists" is not a deep or punchy thing to say. Other examples include "google things" and "exercise." 

I would like people to use this thread to post other examples of boring advice. If you can, provide evidence and/or a plausible argument that your boring advice actually is useful, but I would prefer that you err on the side of boring but not necessarily useful in the name of more thoroughly searching a plausibly under-searched part of advicespace. 

Upvotes on advice posted in this thread should be based on your estimate of the usefulness of the advice; in particular, please do not vote up advice just because it sounds deep or punchy. 

Boring Advice Repository
New Comment
575 comments, sorted by Click to highlight new comments since:
Some comments are truncated due to high volume. (⌘F to expand all)Change truncation settings

When in need of a conversation topic, ask a question about the other person's life. Anything about their life. (If I can't think of something else, I ask about weekend plans.) Listen for what part of their answer they're most interested in. Ask followup questions about that thing. Repeat as necessary.

People like to talk about themselves. This cuts awkward silences down to nothing and makes people like you. I've also learned all sorts of fascinating things about my acquaintances.

Although it should be noted that while this is usually a good idea, it doesn't work on everyone and you should notice if your conversation partner doesn't seem very enthusiastic about talking about themselves. (Yes, I do mean myself - not a big fan of vacuously discussing what I'm up to, most of the time.)

4therufs
In this situation, what would you suggest for your would-be interlocutors? Would it be acceptable for them to make clear that the conversational ball is now in your court and be fine with nonconversation meanwhile?
4Elithrion
Realistically? They'd start asking me how my things are going, and then I'd give some vague general comments and instead ask them how their things are going and then we'd talk about their things. Not sure what to do in the symmetrical case. Maybe try to find non-personal topics to discuss (e.g. books and other fiction, politics, anything else) with the major challenge being finding out which topics both people are interested in (and don't disagree too much on).
6A1987dM
The stereotypical example of that is the weather.
6Desrtopa
Is anyone actually interested in the weather? I thought it was the stereotypical thing that people turn to when they can't think of anything interesting to talk about.

It is the sterotypical thing to talk about, but the point is not the actual weather. It is signal that they would rather be talking to you than be silent. It's an invitation to start a conversation, since people don't routinely come up to you and say 'I would like to being a conversation with you - please suggest a topic'. They say 'Raining again!' instead.

0[anonymous]
Also, talking about a shared experience is powerful, no matter what that experience is. Compare other generic conversation topics: if you both saw the same movie lately, or both watched [$SPORTS_EVENT], then that's a shared experience. You can't necessarily rely on the other person having seen the latest cultural whatsit, but you can be pretty sure they've experienced the weather.
9NancyLebovitz
I'm somewhat interested in the weather-- it affects my quality of life. One problem with being asked about one's life-- when some people do it, I feel like I'm being interrogated. I've got a friend who makes it feel like being interviewed by someone who's got a friendly interest, but I'm don't even have a theory about what creates the different effects. I've got some ability to do small talk. What I'd like to be able to do is bet better at making a transition to more interesting topics.
0therufs
Hmmmm. Challenge accepted.
0[anonymous]
Agreed! Regardless of the reason, pressing someone who wants to disengage is a Bad Thing. (Although I'll note that, if done right, this technique doesn't have to be vacuous. The key is to let the other person guide the conversation towards the things they actually do care about. This takes practice, but it's worth it. Interested people are interesting.)

Do you have more examples of specific questions you like to ask? I've been trying to figure out a good way to get people to talk about the people in their lives (friends, family etc.), just cause I usually like to hear people talk about that.

Simple things I've asked are:

  • Do you have family around here?
  • Do you have siblings?
  • Do you have roommates?

    But I'd like to figure out how to get people to tell me stories and descriptions of the people in their life.

EDIT: I just now realized that your comment above is a great example of the sort of follow-up questions I'm talking about. Well played.

Examples from the past week:

  • Started with the "how was your week" thing. The guy had been on an MIT board discussing their strategy for building MOOCs, and I got to hear a lot about business models in education and how that's changing with technology.
  • Him: "I'll be leaving early tomorrow." Me: "Where are you going to be?" Well, he's helping his son move, and also trying to deal with the previous landlord because apparently his grandkids damaged the walls, and there's all sorts of drama around that...
  • I overheard someone talking about hockey. I know absolutely nothing about the sport, so I asked some extremely basic question, I can't recall what. I learned a little about the structure of the game, and then a lot about how stricter enforcement of the rules in recent decades has changed the dominant playstyles.
  • Right now, in my IRC window, I am hearing about changes to World of Warcraft in the ~5 years since I've played after asking about a cryptic comment someone made about downloading a patch.

As you can see, this is a... (read more)

2MalcolmOcean
I really like that. It gives you a good sense of how they relate to people and also how probably what they value, assuming they give any indication at all of why those people are important.
0jsalvatier
Thanks! :)

Try to live close to where you work. Failing that, try to work close to where you live. Commuting takes a lot of time and you don't get paid for it.

Alternative: commute effectively. Taking a train to NYC from Long Island I get almost 2 hours to read/watch lectures or entertainment. Some days these are 2 best hours of the day.

[-]Pablo200

A few months ago I got a new job that required me to commute for two hours each day. I tried doing many different productive things while sitting on the bus (the means of transportation I used), including reading, listening to audiobooks, watching videos, and even meditating. Eventually, however, I reached the conclusion that doing Anki reviews (using the AnkiDroid app) was, by a wide margin, superior to all these other activities. If you own a smartphone, you might want to give it a try. (And if you don't own a smartphone, you might want to consider obtaining one.)

4Dr_Manhattan
Good advice, I think a lot here depends on the quality of the commute. Big heavy trains are the most comfortable and lent to most potential productive activities. Anki-on-smartphone you can do while standing up in a subway.
1MTGandP
What do you use Anki to review? I see that lots of people use it so it seems valuable, but I don't know what I would use it for.
4Pablo
See here.
1Pablo
I use it for all sorts of things. I even listen to music on Anki. :-) In addition to arundelo's link, you may want to check out this list of Anki decks by LW users.
1arundelo
Here are a few things I use it for.

Not all people can read on trains comfortably. (Likewise, some but not all people can sleep on trains comfortably.) Therefore, Beware of Other-Optimizing is particularly relevant.

I don't know, but I suspect this might be trainable. As a young child I used to get very nauseous reading in the back seat of cars. But since I would get bored with nothing to do, I would read until I was to nauseous to continue, and then try again once I felt better. At some point I stopped getting carsick from reading. I don't Know that I trained this though, it's possible I just grew out of getting carsick, all sorts of stuff changes as you get older.

2A1987dM
I suspect it's fairly common to become less carsick with age (it happened to me as well, and it's not like I trained -- I hadn't read in a car for years before trying to do that again and noticed that it bothered me much less). Anyway, in my case the problem is not sickness (I don't get sick at all when on rails), but just that I can't concentrate very well when on a train. So I can read short stories or poetry no problem, but I usually don't even try to read textbooks or papers.
0taryneast
I still get carsick when reading on buses or cars. I no longer get sick when reading on trains. I used to be truly awful to take in a car (every single car-ride I got sick). Even now, when i do get sick... I don't recover. I have to stop the car, wait half an hour (at least) before moving on (or eating, or anything apart from sitting on the ground feeling miserable). I don't know if it's trainable... it has gotten better in the past 30-odd years... but not gone away totally.When i learned to drive - I learned how to avoid as much of the g-force-inducing movements as possible. I always choose train-transport over other transport. but I am just one data-point.

Alternative: Prioritize the ability to telecommute over raw salary, if you're in an industry where you're able. Consider the time spent traveling when considering jobs.

If you can telecommute, also consider that you can live in a different state. Your paycheck can go further still when you aren't paying income taxes.

[-]twanvl200

Telecommuting might not be the best thing for everyone. At home I have less social interaction and more distractions.

7NancyLebovitz
I've heard that telecommuting makes promotion less likely. If so, then you need to consider more than your current salary.

Promotion?

What, you want to put me in a position where I'm responsible for what a bunch of -programmers- do? Did I do something wrong?

And commuting is apparently just fairly horrible in general.

Practically all of the discussion I can find about this is very US-centric, and so conflates "commuting" with "commuting by car". A long public transport commute that was ideal in other ways (train journey, no changes, door-to-door, frequent trains with seats, signal) could be much preferable to a shorter drive; I use my commute to read, look at my TODO list, catch up with blogs etc.

0[anonymous]
Euro here, I used to enjoy commuting by car more than by subway now: * personal space * safety from potentially aggressive travellers, the annoying drunks who try to yell at people on the subway * it is an exciting activity to drive as long as you can find tricky routes with little traffic, these will be usually narrow roads where you don't even need to exceed the 50 km/h speed limit to make it feel risky and exciting and if you do, no police there. * feeling middle class, not mixing with the "proles" * more freedom in choosing how to dress, less having to take the weather into account * resisting the temptation to drink alcohol right after work, at least starting later in the evening * music without annoying earplugs * hands-free phone calls, my dad used to be excellent at it, he was an entrepreneur and phoned through his whole 45 min long commute, by the time everybody arrived to the office every employee and subcontractor was briefed, problems reported back, things were in motion. This way the commute is worktime. * having useful stuff with me all the time in the trunk And now I am nostalgic for my car. We live car-free now because it is very expensive, €80 mandatory insurance a month etc. but sure as hell I would want to have it back.
4gjm
I would not recommend combining this with this In fact, I think there's good evidence that hands-free phone calls are considerably more distracting than drivers tend to think.

IMO the optimal distance is 15-30 minutes by bicycle. That'll give you some exercise you don't have to do anything extra for, that doesn't take a lot of time. I've been working from home for close to 2 years now, and my fitness has taken a big hit. I've just started to ride my bicycle for about half an hour daily, but the problem is, I don't really need to do it, so it's easy to skip it if I'm busy or just don't feel like it.

7Error
I've considered this several times because I'm in range for it; but always reject it on the grounds that I don't want to sit around feeling like dried sweat and stink for eight hours. How did you deal with that when you were biking?

I put on deodorant in the morning, and I don't race, I just go ~16-17 km/h (on average, that is; faster on straight stretches, like ~20 km/h). On a normal city bike, not a racing bicycle. I might get a little sweaty sometimes, but never so much that I got smelly. (Edit: typo)

2Creutzer
For what it's worth, I do exactly the same thing with the same result.
0Emily
Ditto. Hills can add some sweatiness even if you go very slowly, if your range of gears isn't wide enough.

I've considered this several times because I'm in range for it; but always reject it on the grounds that I don't want to sit around feeling like dried sweat and stink for eight hours. How did you deal with that when you were biking?

Showers. (One of the advantages of large workplaces.)

1taryneast
and sometimes if not at your workplace, then nearby (or in a gym/mall/etc nearby that is willing)
0Kenny
I actually do race (when I actually bike to work) and I've almost never had a problem as long as I just wipe off the sweat when I get to work. I do tho bring a separate set of clothes (shirt and pants), as even in the fall and spring I completely soak my shirt (probably because I wear a messenger bag).
0Sabiola
Just happened to see this old comment. Sure enough, the cycling got skipped more and more often, until I just forgot about it completely. I really need to find something fun to do to get myself moving again.
4beoShaffer
Also, consider remote work.
2passive_fist
Our neighborhood is a residential one that's fairly close to the main city center. Our streets are almost always lined with rows and rows of cars of people, many of whom come from distant parts of town, park their car here (to avoid ridiculously expensive parking fees in the city), and then take a 30-40 minute bus to their workplace. Now I used to think that my 30 minute commute was bad. The buses come just twice an hour and are never on time, there's always traffic, and half the time you wind up standing. But these folks just astound me. I just can't imagine doing that each day - driving to a residential neighborhood, finding a parking space, then enduring the horrible public transit system, then doing the exact same thing in reverse to get back home. I hope they're getting paid tremendously well.

A major mental change that allowed me to own less things was someone mentioning "treat craigslist as free storage." The idea being that if you ever really need X you can get it fairly easily. But this extends to retail goods as well. I now keep in mind that everything that costs<(.1)(paycheck) is already mine and I only go pick it up if I really, actually, need it.

3Joshua_Blaine
This is a nice comment. It's a useful frame of reference and I especially like it because it jives well with the intuitions I've developed since I started studying Economics. And probably my identity as a Neat Person and someone who enjoys experiences over things.
[-]Shmi790

Start your post or comment with a summary when posting anything over 3-5 paragraphs.

[-]ESRogs290

Also: use paragraphs.